How many people make a living from poker?

[dufferdevon]

play $2.00 s&g's 6 tables 5 hrs. a day 5 days a week for 1 yr. If you can't make over 20k then stay at the supermarket.

You math doesn't work, not even close. Let's say each game take 1 hour to play, you are only playing 60 games a day @ $2 is $120 in buyins - times 5 days is $600 a week x 52 weeks is $31,200 in just buy ins.

If your ROI is godlike at 50%, your only making $15,600.00

 

[SONIC589]

You math doesn't work, not even close. Let's say each game take 1 hour to play, you are only playing 60 games a day @ $2 is $120 in buyins - times 5 days is $600 a week x 52 weeks is $31,200 in just buy ins.

If your ROI is godlike at 50%, your only making $15,600.00

lol I'm glad you did that math because there is no way I would do that! I was interested to see what that came out too. That 50% ROI is what I like to call IMPOSSIBLE to maintain for a year! lol

 

[dufferdevon]

lol I'm glad you did that math because there is no way I would do that! I was interested to see what that came out too. That 50% ROI is what I like to call IMPOSSIBLE to maintain for a year! lol

Actually, I'm glad you posted it that way. IT made me figure out what it would be, now I can use those numbers to see if even a part time income is possible and at what stakes I would need to play, etc...

 

[peacebrother]

How many people would you estimate worldwide make enough money to live on from poker?
My own opinion would be that you need to be able to make about $20,000 a year at least to live from.
I guess pokers so big now that you don't need to really be at the top of the game to be making plenty of money, and there must be tons of players online who can make $2000 a month without too much troubl, so there must be many thousands of pros.

Almost hate to chime in but here goes.

I got the axe at my JOB about 2 months ago. I had a poker only bankroll of 1k.
I have 3 casinos here in Tulsa with mostly 1/2nl 2/5 nl as well as plo games and holdem limit games. I only play no limit so I started out on the 1/2 tables with a max buyin that just got moved to 300.
The increase of buy in puts alot of money on the table, thus more money for me. :icon_sant At first I was very carful and would get up from the table when I hit 500 and call it a day.

So I decided to play 10 hour shifts and this has helped, I had my best day so far taking 900 profit.

So far I am averaging 600-800 a week and my roll is movng up. That is about 36k a year just playing 1/2. I would think this is the minimum you would need to make to get buy.

Online cash games are so tight it makes it hard to grind out a buck, but live there are players who come in with a goal of not loosing more than 200. Think about it.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

The easy part is making $20k/year. The hard part is surviving on that kind of money. It's about the cost of the rent for my appartement.

Anyway, if you're bad enough that you can only earn $20k per year and still want to live from it, the obvious solution is to relocate to south east Asia. Much lower cost of living, nice beaches and your office hours are about when drunk Americans are playing late at night.

 

[Infamous1020]

Costs:

medical expenses/insurance are a few thousand/year, you can probably get a cheap place for ~5k/year renting, couple hundred for food/month = another ~5k/year for food (obviously possible for this to be more if you eat out a lot or possibly less if you eat just mass-produced stuff but even $15/day = $5/meal is like 5.5k for the year). Then figure taxes, although I guess at that point you're not paying too much.

So that's like 15k just covering rent/food/health costs. Then if you also drive there's car insurance, gas, car payments if you don't already own it, and most people like to spend money on fun. So is it possible to squeak by and survive on 20k/year? Sure probably. Also like I said I've heard of people living in somewhere like Thailand and money going a long way and basically living like a king on ~2k/month. So it's all relative, but if you plan on living in a good area in the US you'd basically be living in poverty.

And on the point about some people making as low as 15k/year in unskilled labor no offense but most people good enough to play poker for a living are also intelligent enough to get a normal job for a bit more than 15k/year.

this is pretty much accurate. im moving out of home and stuff so yeah, expenses are a bitch

 

[newbie37]

When you think about it there is alot of players, even a couple of my friends brag how they make that much. but can they win that much every month. that's the difference. guess i'll just keep working.

 

[luzmaria]

To start earning 20K a year you need at least 20k start bankroll to play with...my nr1 dream is to become pro poker player but that can only happend if I win lottery like 2-3 millions dollars,then I can start playin poker and leve out of it...until that happends Im keeping my day job

 

[Eugenius]

I don't play for a living yet, but poker is a nice supplement to my income. Right now I only play $1/$2 and I average $1000 a month right now. Once I build up my bankroll a bit I will start dabbling in higher stakes ($2/$5) and will see how my performance is in that game. Once I can do $5k/mo in winnings I think I will be leaving my day job. It will probably take me at least 2 more years to get to that level and the necessary bankroll, though.

 

[zachvac]

If you start out making $20,000 a year then the hope would be that you can make a lot more than that before too long, which is not unrealistic if you're capable of making that much already and devote all your time to it.
To the guy who said its not worth the effort for $20,000 a year, I'd rather play poker all day than work in a supermarket all day for the same amount of money anyway.

I highly doubt this. Also note that if you're working in a supermarket all day you can take sick days or just be sort of out of it and as long as it's not a habit you won't lose your job and will still get the same pay. If you play a session of poker when you're out of it you cost yourself money. If you take a sick day you make no money. For every hour of playing poker it's probably equivalent to the effort/concentration of 3-4 hours at any other job at least assuming you're multitabling. Also you have to factor in study/hand review and stuff like that. Bottom line playing for a living isn't all it's cracked up to be. Not that it's all bad, the freedom/not having a boss/being able to play when you want is definitely a good thing, but a lot of people seem to have unrealistic expectations of what it's like. I'm playing for a living this year but unless I'm up a lot higher than I am now and making closer to a million a year there's no way I'd want to play it full time long-term. Much better to just keep playing it for extra money on top of a normal job.

 

[nugsmoke]

Interesting question....I believe it would take about 30k a year to be able to sustain a living off of poker, if I had time I could probably be a "pro" but wife would never go for it. Anyways I think anything less than 30k and your better off doing something else. I'm new here by the way and I hope to see everyone around at the tournies and live games. Peace out!
kenny g.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I highly doubt this. Also note that if you're working in a supermarket all day you can take sick days or just be sort of out of it and as long as it's not a habit you won't lose your job and will still get the same pay. If you play a session of poker when you're out of it you cost yourself money. If you take a sick day you make no money. For every hour of playing poker it's probably equivalent to the effort/concentration of 3-4 hours at any other job at least assuming you're multitabling. Also you have to factor in study/hand review and stuff like that. Bottom line playing for a living isn't all it's cracked up to be. Not that it's all bad, the freedom/not having a boss/being able to play when you want is definitely a good thing, but a lot of people seem to have unrealistic expectations of what it's like. I'm playing for a living this year but unless I'm up a lot higher than I am now and making closer to a million a year there's no way I'd want to play it full time long-term. Much better to just keep playing it for extra money on top of a normal job.

I reckon you'd play for just a mear 500K a year.

As for sick pay, its probably different in the USA but in the UK, sick pay isn't statutory until 3 sequential days of absence (which cannot be claimed back) then its around £60 a week - about $100.

Some firms choose to play an employee during a period of sickness, but its not a requirement and a lot of firms do not.

 

[Monoxide]

Lately I have only been able to beat the 50nl games because I sux and god hates me. But honestly I believe I could make a living from poker in general. The amount of dead money in live poker cash games is so sick. Especially if you only play fri/sat/sun as your working days, I can easily make at least $100-200 a trip on a bad day. Even a really bad day where you go negative ive never lost more than my 1st BI, its just so hard to do. My best 2/5 live day was... $1200 or so, for 1 day of work. Now ive logged a substantial amount of hours live, so my results are not skewed or based on a small sample, if I was to guess? Id say.. 200 hours logged, ive profited around $4000, making about $20/hr I guess.

About 90% of the times I go, its at BAD times because I get a ride up with my mom, no time selection, lolz. I play the nits/regs mostly in the day shift, rarely do I get the nice late night hours. I couldnt begin to fathom how profitable it must be to grind the evening/weekends/nights.

Online is a harder game because most online players are capable thinking players and its much more grinding stones against stones. In a perfect world I would relocate to vegas (not 21 yet or id be there right now...) and id play online pokerz 50nl or 100nl during the day and in the evening/nights I would play 2/5 live poker.

So yeah.... to be a poker player as a job isnt that hard? Its totally possible to live like this just dont suck at poker and dont drink and poker, dont run bad either, keep a huge savings in case of swongs (5k-10k) and pray for run good.

 

[zachvac]

lol live poker. I don't know how people do it full-time. Sure there's a ton of dead money, but at the same time you play like 20 hands/hour...

 

[Monoxide]

lol live poker indeed, its boring as **** I know. I dunno I like free money though, for the small amount of effort generated to attain said money its kinda worth it. I just dont have the BR to play 100nl/200nl online with confidence, im staked now even for 50nl/100nl play, its not even my own money and its still ultra stressful.

 

[jordanbillie]

In regards to playing live poker "professionally". I see a couple people at the casino I work at that claim to be professional players. The one guy plays 1/2 NL $100 max!!!! He says he comes to the casino and once he wins $200 he goes home, lol.

Also about the discussion that students coming out of college nowadays are having trouble getting high paying jobs, it is so true. I see people I graduated high school with that also went to college and are now working at a Subway or some other minimum wage job.
This was one of the reasons I decided to look into being a poker dealer (besides my love for poker). After a 6 week certification course that only costed $850, I was eligible for a job. It did take me 1-2 years after completing the course to get hired, but that is because there is only 1 casino near me that I could work at. Now I am dealing at the casino and having the time of my life, and getting some nice pay to go with it. Plus I can constantly work on my poker game and pay attention the the play that I am dealing.

 

[Xavier]

It did take me 1-2 years after completing the course to get hired, but that is because there is only 1 casino near me that I could work at. Now I am dealing at the casino and having the time of my life, and getting some nice pay to go with it. Plus I can constantly work on my poker game and pay attention the the play that I am dealing.

Dealers get paid shit.
Where I live they get like $9 an hour.

 

[Xavier]

Online is a harder game because most online players are capable thinking players and its much more grinding stones against stones.

I think the opposite.
Round the casinos where I live the general level of play is certainly higher than what you find online.
I think those that play in casinos, a higher percentage are experienced and really into the game, whereas online you get tons of donks and noobies throwing away cash.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

I think the opposite.
Round the casinos where I live the general level of play is certainly higher than what you find online.
I think those that play in casinos, a higher percentage are experienced and really into the game, whereas online you get tons of donks and noobies throwing away cash.

:laugh: :rofl:

Have you ever tried playing 200nl online? Seriously?

 

[Monoxide]

I think the opposite.
Round the casinos where I live the general level of play is certainly higher than what you find online.
I think those that play in casinos, a higher percentage are experienced and really into the game, whereas online you get tons of donks and noobies throwing away cash.

:laugh: :rofl:

Have you ever tried playing 200nl online? Seriously?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Infamous1020]

lol live poker. I don't know how people do it full-time. Sure there's a ton of dead money, but at the same time you play like 20 hands/hour...

which = playing like a LAGtard idiot against a bunch of station fish.

 

[WEC]

Dealers get paid shit.
Where I live they get like $9 an hour.

Yeah--U think thats shit...$9 an hour plus quite a few tips adds up to a pretty penny (yeah most cheap ass internet players forget about the tipping part )
Live games Average at least 36 hands an hour in regular non-split games--$1 tip each pot--you figure it out

Then add in extra on days a jackpot is hit (dealers generally get a nice chunk of change from players)

Dealer is one of the easiest jobs for the money on the planet with not an ounce of educational backround needed

 

[zachvac]

Yeah honestly I was thinking about how much a dealer makes just in tips at a 1/2 game it's incredible a lot of people are tipping them $5 for like a $50 pot and those pots happen like once every few hands at 1/2. They're easily making $20+ in their half hour shifts now obviously the one thing is they're not working all the time I didn't notice how many rounds they dealt over long time periods but it's definitely amazing pay for someone who basically needs no advanced skills.

 

[blankoblanco]

I think the opposite.
Round the casinos where I live the general level of play is certainly higher than what you find online.
I think those that play in casinos, a higher percentage are experienced and really into the game, whereas online you get tons of donks and noobies throwing away cash.

uh are you comparing 100NL live to like micro stakes online? because it makes no sense to compare different stakes. nobody who has actually played a decent amount of 100NL+ online and offline would ever agree with what you just wrote

 

[CryingAmy]

Great thread- like the tangents!!

There are many people who are 'pro' and make good money from poker whether live or online, but there are also many others to struggle to grind away and then many who lose/ fail to make enough to make a living (there's a great series on youtube about 'pro' poker players and what a bunch of degenerates they are, continually going bust and struggling to make a living- search for them as well worth watching!).

Great debate about the amount needed to make a living- it depends on circumstances and location as people have said and the comment about moving to S. Asia is spot on (Africa, parts of the middle east and South America also options?)

I tried to play freerolls and small buyins for a living for approx 3-4 months, but living in London meant it was almost impossible (just about managed to pay the rent, but used savings for everyday expenses)

I do have 4 'friends' (2 good friends) who tried it seriously
- one guy won a big tournament ($50k?) and decided to turn pro- lost almost all winnings in 8 months and gave up.
- another guy again won a lot in a tournament ($30k) and did the same- he made a decent living for a year or so, but got bored/ fed up with grinding and realised could make more with a job.
- one guy (good friend) made a living playing heads up large stakes at UB for 18months- easily made enough to live in London, (whilst running a software company that wasnt really profitable) but he's very clever and went back to IT for a big bank where he could and does make much more.
- another good friend has just started playing and is finding it a bit of a struggle, but too early to tell...

So even those who can make a living often chose not to because of the unsociable hours/ better opportunities out there.

Personally I make a bit of extra cash and am happy doing that- if I can one day go deep in a big event (after satelliting in!) then I would be tempted to give it a go, (grinding multiple tables every day wouldnt be my idea of fun), but even a $50k win/ bankroll wouldnt be enough to try imho ($200k maybe)- the big money is in live tournaments/ big online tournaments so this is the only way I would do it (moving up cash limits sounds good, but at some point you're bound to come a cropper?)

multiple $10 (or higher) sngs would be the best way of grinding I suppose if you were prepared to do it.