How big of a difference in 10 NL VS 50 NL?

[WVHillbilly]

So you'd go through with the stake knowing that your staker was going to lose money??? Does your staker know this?

 

[IcyBlueAce]

So you'd go through with the stake knowing that your staker was going to lose money??? Does your staker know this?

He's not a stupid guy, and plus $1,000 to him is nothing. He's just not really an online type of player and is impressed that I can play so many tables and how much I can make off of just 10 NL.

I wouldn't lose it all anyway, if I got down to $500 I'd stop.

 

[dmorris68]

So you'd go through with the stake knowing that your staker was going to lose money??? Does your staker know this?

I think it's obvious the OP doesn't believe he will lose money, despite the fact everyone ITT has confirmed 50NL is tougher than 10NL, so I suspect he's going to tell his staker that he can do it regardless.

The way I look at it, if his staker isn't doing his own homework on the OP, and the OP isn't grossly misrepresenting himself to the staker (although some might argue he is if he's convinced the staker that he can win at 50NL), then I have a hard time feeling sorry for the staker in this spot. He'll learn soon enough, I suppose, and meanwhile his money will be feeding the 50NL sharks.

OP, be aware that $500 (or even $1000) is hardly a 50NL bankroll, and variance could easily eat that up in a session or two. I never played 10NL across a large enough sample size to know my overall winrate, but at 50NL I followed a $1500 upswing with a $2000 downswing. Not chalking it all up to variance as I was adjusting my game and feel like I broke something, but even within the upswing I had several 2-5BI losing sessions. $1000, much less $500, won't give you much buffer to withstand those kinds of swings.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

I think it's obvious the OP doesn't believe he will lose money, despite the fact everyone ITT has confirmed 50NL is tougher than 10NL, so I suspect he's going to tell his staker that he can do it regardless.

The way I look at it, if his staker isn't doing his own homework on the OP, and the OP isn't grossly misrepresenting himself to the staker (although some might argue he is if he's convinced the staker that he can win at 50NL), then I have a hard time feeling sorry for the staker in this spot. He'll learn soon enough, I suppose, and meanwhile his money will be feeding the 50NL sharks.

Point out where I said I didn't believe I would lose money, read before you post, "do your homework". Why not take a shot at 50 NL regardless of if you know you'll lose? Its free money, I was just asking about the difference in skill level.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

You fail to understand that 1BB at 10nl is not the same at 50nl when you have absolutely no experience even at 20nl or 50nl.

Long story short, its not a profitable venture and you could be stuck in a shity deal that rapes you in the long run.

I didn't "fail to understand" anything (you didn't explain anything), we were talking about 10 NL, and I was asking about 50 NL in my OP.

 

[WVHillbilly]

There are no sharks at 50nl. Just fish and bigger fish.

But yeah, I don't feel bad for the staker. I do think OP is dillusional if he thinks either he or his staker are going to win $$s at 50nl after barely beating 10nl. Even if he somehow breaks even how exciting will it be for either of them to split his $1/100 hands of rakeback??

 

[IcyBlueAce]

There are no sharks at 50nl. Just fish and bigger fish.

But yeah, I don't feel bad for the staker. I do think OP is dillusional if he thinks either he or his staker are going to win $$s at 50nl after barely beating 10nl. Even if he somehow breaks even how exciting will it be for either of them to split his $1/100 hands of rakeback??

When did I say this? This thread isn't about me beating 50 NL, its about the difference in skill level.. -__-

 

[WVHillbilly]

Ok, to put it another way.

The difference in skill level between 10nl and 50nl is great enough that a 1BB/100 winner at 10nl WILL be a loser at 50nl.

Happy?

 

[IcyBlueAce]

Ok, to put it another way.

The difference in skill level between 10nl and 50nl is great enough that a 1BB/100 winner at 10nl WILL be a loser at 50nl.

Happy?

I was looking for more specifics that actually were helpful like other people were posting until I started getting bashed.. Maybe I should have just posted the title and not give the extra stake info. I've already told him that I have no experience in 50 NL (not in masses anyway) and that I'd probably lose.

 

[dmorris68]

Point out where I said I didn't believe I would lose money, read before you post, "do your homework". Why not take a shot at 50 NL regardless of if you know you'll lose? Its free money, I was just asking about the difference in skill level.

That's fine when it's your money. I'd suggest this money isn't "free" just because it doesn't cost you anything up front. But if you lose it all you'll find that out soon enough whether it actually cost you anything (pride, friendship, etc.).

$1000 isn't a ton of money to me either but I'm not going to set fire to it, nor am I giving it to someone just to lose. If I stake someone for $1000 it's because I'm confident they can make something with it. You said yourself this staker seems impressed with "what you make" at 10NL, yet you said your 10NL income is almost all RB, which you said you wouldn't be sharing with your staker, right? At least RB normally isn't shared in a staking agreement from what I understand. So what profit is he looking to make then? Apparently he isn't enough of a player to understand the different between 10NL and 50NL, and by your own posts you aren't either.

So, to summarize as I understand it (feel free to correct me):

1. You already said you weren't comfortable losing someone else's money
2. You already said you're barely b/e at 10NL without RB, which presumably you aren't sharing with your staker
3. Per your questions, you aren't up to speed on how staking arrangements work, and don't know what sort of makeup or loss agreements your staker expects (or at least you didn't post it). If he doesn't care if you lose and doesn't expect you to make up the losses, then fine, but you might want to get it in writing, and I hope given #1 that you will be okay with it.
4. You insist on a quantifiable "delta" between 10NL and 50NL, which just isn't possible. We can't describe how 50NL is X% harder than 10NL. It all depends on the individual, how quickly they adapt, table selection (many more regs at 50NL), and a bunch of other variables. All we can tell you is that it's tougher, and you'd be ill advised to jump straight into it from a 1BB winrate at 10NL. If that doesn't just make common sense to you, then there's nothing more to tell you.

And about you getting "bashed" I think you brought it on yourself. It happens pretty often -- somebody posts for "advice" but are really looking for an answer they want to hear. When they don't get it, they stubbornly refute the advice they're getting from people who know what they're talking about. Which then takes the thread in the inevitable direction of the OP being mocked, ridiculed, or "bashed." When solid players like WVH, NineLions, and marginal give advice -- even if sometimes in a mildly sarcastic tone -- people would do well to listen.

Forum Tip Of The Day: If you ask a question in a forum and don't get the answer you seek, ask yourself why you asked in the first place. If you can't accept the answer given, then just thank everyone for their input and let it go, knowing within yourself that everyone else is obviously an idiot but you're taking the high road on not calling them out.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

That's fine when it's your money. I'd suggest this money isn't "free" just because it doesn't cost you anything up front. But if you lose it all you'll find that out soon enough whether it actually cost you anything (pride, friendship, etc.).

$1000 isn't a ton of money to me either but I'm not going to set fire to it, nor am I giving it to someone just to lose. If I stake someone for $1000 it's because I'm confident they can make something with it. You said yourself this staker seems impressed with "what you make" at 10NL, yet you said your 10NL income is almost all RB, which you said you wouldn't be sharing with your staker, right? At least RB normally isn't shared in a staking agreement from what I understand. So what profit is he looking to make then? Apparently he isn't enough of a player to understand the different between 10NL and 50NL, and by your own posts you aren't either.

So, to summarize as I understand it (feel free to correct me):

1. You already said you weren't comfortable losing someone else's money
2. You already said you're barely b/e at 10NL without RB, which presumably you aren't sharing with your staker
3. Per your questions, you aren't up to speed on how staking arrangements work, and don't know what sort of makeup or loss agreements your staker expects (or at least you didn't post it). If he doesn't care if you lose and doesn't expect you to make up the losses, then fine, but you might want to get it in writing, and I hope given #1 that you will be okay with it.
4. You insist on a quantifiable "delta" between 10NL and 50NL, which just isn't possible. We can't describe how 50NL is X% harder than 10NL. It all depends on the individual, how quickly they adapt, table selection (many more regs at 50NL), and a bunch of other variables. All we can tell you is that it's tougher, and you'd be ill advised to jump straight into it from a 1BB winrate at 10NL. If that doesn't just make common sense to you, then there's nothing more to tell you.

And about you getting "bashed" I think you brought it on yourself. It happens pretty often -- somebody posts for "advice" but are really looking for an answer they want to hear. When they don't get it, they stubbornly refute the advice they're getting from people who know what they're talking about. Which then takes the thread in the inevitable direction of the OP being mocked, ridiculed, or "bashed." When solid players like WVH, NineLions, and marginal give advice -- even if sometimes in a mildly sarcastic tone -- people would do well to listen.

Forum Tip Of The Day: If you ask a question in a forum and don't get the answer you seek, ask yourself why you asked in the first place. If you can't accept the answer given, then just thank everyone for their input and let it go, knowing within yourself that everyone else is obviously an idiot but you're taking the high road on not calling them out.

You wasted a lot of typing on this post, 99% of what you just said was pointless or stuff I already knew or said I knew.

I can already tell your not reading these posts based of your long pointless post and "yet you said your 10NL income is almost all RB, which you said you wouldn't be sharing with your staker, right?" ----- NO I never said that.

Seriously, shut up and learn to read before you post. Thanks.

EDIT: I'll say this again, read the title, that is the point and topic of this thread. Thanks.

 

[Marginal]

You wasted a lot of typing on this post, 99% of what you just said was pointless or stuff I already knew or said I knew.

I can already tell your not reading these posts based of your long pointless post and "yet you said your 10NL income is almost all RB, which you said you wouldn't be sharing with your staker, right?" ----- NO I never said that.

Seriously, shut up and learn to read before you post. Thanks.

EDIT: I'll say this again, read the title, that is the point and topic of this thread. Thanks.

Wow seriously?

 

[IcyBlueAce]

Wow seriously?

Seriously.

 

[Marginal]

Someone just gave you advice and even if you dont think you need it common courtesy dictates that you atleast be nice to the guy.

 

[Marginal]

My last point here but something I would say

You are not in a position to beat 50nl and the best thing to do at this point is to just continue on your own and gradually move up to 25 then 50nl. And dont lie, the reason you posted this was just to reassure yourself that you can beat 50nl and take the stake but alas, you probably would not be able to beat it and it is not a smart idea.

 

[madtom1337]

Dude, I BEG you please jump to 50NL on FTP now. I will rip your roll from you. Search madtom1337 on FTP 50NL tables american times. PLEASE. Oh, 6-max, not FR. FR is for noobs. Like you!

Edit: Wouldn't usually offer such trolly backwards advice, but considering the rudeness I've seen in this thread from OP, I'm not really concerned about that.

 

[dmorris68]

Yeah, I wasted like 4 minutes of my life typing that up. FML. You're right OP, I'm a loser who can't read (wtf? denial much?). But I'll be in good company shortly.

Like most everyone else who initially took an interest in helping you, I'm done. Have fun being a 50NL loser.

BTW, I think you'd feel more at home at the other forum. Your type would fit right in there, which is why the rest of us hang out here at CC.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

My last point here but something I would say

You are not in a position to beat 50nl and the best thing to do at this point is to just continue on your own and gradually move up to 25 then 50nl. And dont lie, the reason you posted this was just to reassure yourself that you can beat 50nl and take the stake but alas, you probably would not be able to beat it and it is not a smart idea.

That wasn't my question and like I stated I already was pretty sure I couldn't beat it and told my staker that. He doesn't care regardless.

You guys are basically telling me not to be staked free money to take shots at 50 NL? Thats gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever heard, why not? Its a great learning experience and I've got nothing to lose.

I'll say this again, this is about the difference between 10 NL and 50 NL, NOT about me being able to beat it and whatnot, I already figured long before posting this that I can't, not that there is no reason not to try, I just wanted some tips/advice.. Bashing with stuff I ALREADY KNOW is really ridiculous and stupid on your part.

I feel like you two are just trying to get your post count up or something, I really just can't believe how immature your being.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

Dude, I BEG you please jump to 50NL on FTP now. I will rip your roll from you. Search madtom1337 on FTP 50NL tables american times. PLEASE. Oh, 6-max, not FR. FR is for noobs. Like you!

Edit: Wouldn't usually offer such trolly backwards advice, but considering the rudeness I've seen in this thread from OP, I'm not really concerned about that.

They started the rudeness, not me.

 

[madtom1337]

They started the rudeness, not me.

Nope, they didn't. I can read thank you very much. If you think this, then you're being very sensitive. And if you're thinking of moving up to 5x your usual stake then you really need to be a lot less sensitive, as the swings are going to be much more emotionally testing, especially if you're planning on playing lots of tables. Also, if your staker is such a rich ass poker pro, then why can't you get him to sweat you for an hour every few days so that he can teach you to beat 50NL for a decent winrate >1BB/100?

 

[IcyBlueAce]

Nope, they didn't. I can read thank you very much. If you think this, then you're being very sensitive. And if you're thinking of moving up to 5x your usual stake then you really need to be a lot less sensitive, as the swings are going to be much more emotionally testing, especially if you're planning on playing lots of tables. Also, if your staker is such a rich ass poker pro, then why can't you get him to sweat you for an hour every few days so that he can teach you to beat 50NL for a decent winrate >1BB/100?

This whole post showed a lot of ignorance on your part and that you CLEARLY can't or didn't read.

 

[madtom1337]

This whole post showed a lot of ignorance on your part and that you CLEARLY can't or didn't read.

This whole thread shows a lot of sensitivity and insecurity in your poker on YOUR part, that you're CLEARLY choosing to IGNORE.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

This whole thread shows a lot of sensitivity and insecurity in your poker on YOUR part, that you're CLEARLY choosing to IGNORE.

What have I ignored? Nothing. I've confronted everything, even the posts that just repeat themself or pointless posts that I knew and wasn't asking in my OP.

Go increase your post count some place else.

 

[madtom1337]

What have I ignored? Nothing. I've confronted everything, even the posts that just repeat themself or pointless posts that I knew and wasn't asking in my OP.

Go increase your post count some place else.

My post count? Lol. Ok. If you read my post properly you'd notice that I was pointing out that you're ignoring issues with your mentality and your poker, not points in the thread.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

My post count? Lol. Ok. If you read my post properly you'd notice that I was pointing out that you're ignoring issues with your mentality and your poker, not points in the thread.

If you read anything "properly" we wouldn't be having this discussion.