Good players, or fish?

[dudemanstan]

Ok I lol at that, awesome!!

 

[MAFSC]

I think u do better read with good players than with donks because they playing more like u

 

[einsteintimes9]

There is no better feeling than check-raising a fish all-in with the nuts and having them call out of confusion

 

[bowizard]

As much as I like playing against good players, and players better than myself due to my competitive nature. I would prefer the fish, because they make way too many mistakes, and although they luck up here and there, if you are playing within your bankroll, you will annihilate them.

 

[Ryfa]

I recomend you to play at a 9 table containing 5 fishes and 3 good + you.

Since fishes plays anything, the good players will whait for AK/AA then robbing them. And if you join you will know at the table what the good players have, and don't have. Then you can easy rob the good player if not the fish has a bether hand, since you can se on the table if the good player has anyting. Then you and the fish will play and the winner get's the good players pot, + the opponent you/fish.

 

[Aleksei]

I recomend you to play at a 9 table containing 5 fishes and 3 good + you.

The problem is if you have too many fish at table every pot you get into will be multiway, and playing multiway is really tough if you don't know what you're doing; even against droolers.

 

[cotta777]

You will definitely get easier reads from "good players" but those players will not be making as many mistakes. Mistakes are where you make money. You will get better money (albeit with greater variance sometimes) playing fish.

Agree for cash games, and although it can be easier to accumalate tournament chips against the fish/donks
I much prefer solid players in 10 min blinds for large tournaments,
as you can take advantage of what they are doing because we all have similiar traits and optimal plays

 

[GrandMaestro7]

Playing fish gets tough when you try get to fancy. And bluffing, forget about it!

A lot of the time they don't even consider that they might be behind and WILL call just to suck out on the river.

 

[ElPorito]

I have started playing against some good solid players recently, and it seems to me that they are easier to play against then donks/fish. I seem to get a read on them better. I think I will stick to playing good players.

What about you? Would you rather play at a table full of average to good players, or a table of fish? Thanks.

Where does the increase in your opponents skills come from? Did you go up the stakes? Are you playing a differnt game or game type or how do you rate that you're now playing against better opponents?

Personally I believe there is suckers and skilled players on all stakes no matter if you play NL4 or NL100. Of course the number of "fish" you have on your table might decrease as you move up the stakes or the number of random players decreases and you have more regulars on the table but there is always fish out there.

However, I wouldn't like having a full table of regs cause those tables are often turn into some very serious games and a battle over the blinds. I rather have 2-3 "recreational players" at the table than a full ring of skilled players. Imho it's -EV.

 

[jaworek1405]

Sometimes it seems that it is better to play against solid players, because they have more respect for you than donks/fishes. But I'm curious how it looks in longrun I think in longrun is better idea to play with fish, because they don't think what they do too much and you can earn more money on them.

 

[TeUnit]

practice on the fishes learn from the sharks

 

[Aleksei]

Sometimes it seems that it is better to play against solid players, because they have more respect for you than donks/fishes.

The problem is that 1) it makes you super incredibly polarized so that no value hand is legitimate value except a monster (even TPTK is often at best a chop), and 2) when you try to take advantage of a tag's folding tendencies they'll notice and call you down light so that your bluffs lose value. So the game becomes an exploito-fest and if you don't know EXACTLY how to adjust or when, you get eaten alive.

So, not as hot as it sounds.

 

[IM deusXmachina]

Fish get lucky too

I have started playing against some good solid players recently, and it seems to me that they are easier to play against then donks/fish. I seem to get a read on them better. I think I will stick to playing good players.

What about you? Would you rather play at a table full of average to good players, or a table of fish? Thanks.

IMO, fish are tougher to play, sometimes..because you know that they have no method to their madness. They will call a pot sized bet even though they are a 5 to 1 to hit their flush draw, or worse, less than 5 to 1 to catch the runner runner draw, just because they "feel it". I watched a guy mid tournament say "ill call you" to an all-in midway through a tourney with 5-7 off PRE FLOP, and say " i'm feelin it". WELL GUESS WHAT HE FLOPPED. the nut straight! Donks get lucky sometimes. That guys QQ he shoved all in with never stood a chance, as long as the fish was willing to see the flop and catch the nuts. I have been playing mostly Live poker for the last several years and in my opinion fish are everywhere, and each one has their own way of giving away chips, but one out of ten ( at least ) they are gonna hit that magic card or cards that seemed so elusive and far off to those of us who know our odds. I would love to see some other seasoned players, Live and online and find out the consensus on this question!

 

[Aleksei]

IMO, fish are tougher to play, sometimes..because you know that they have no method to their madness. They will call a pot sized bet even though they are a 5 to 1 to hit their flush draw, or worse, less than 5 to 1 to catch the runner runner draw, just because they "feel it".

Why don't you people get it? THIS IS ****ING GOOD FOR YOU! 2 times out of 3 he won't hit his flush, and you just extracted 2 streets of value out of him. Who the **** cares if he hits it the third time? You're still printing money.

 

[IM deusXmachina]

Why don't you people get it? THIS IS ****ING GOOD FOR YOU! 2 times out of 3 he won't hit his flush, and you just extracted 2 streets of value out of him. Who the **** cares if he hits it the third time? You're still printing money.

I get that it is good for you in the long run, like card counting. The numbers are in your favor at the end of the road. But 6 hours into trny, when it all is on the line. Some lucky fish can ruin your run if they are more lucky that you are, and its just their day in the hot seat...no matter where they sit, or what they play, or how they play it!

 

[Aleksei]

So don't play tournaments.

Like seriously, to win a tournament YOU HAVE TO GET REALLY LUCKY. Your tournament EV is positive if your play is solid, but you need to play them over and over again to realize it, because the odds of winning every flip you have to get into to make the money are stacked very heavily against you.

So, if you don't like that variance, just don't effing expose yourself to it. It's a simple matter.

 

[IM deusXmachina]

agreed

So don't play tournaments.

Like seriously, to win a tournament YOU HAVE TO GET REALLY LUCKY. Your tournament EV is positive if your play is solid, but you need to play them over and over again to realize it, because the odds of winning every flip you have to get into to make the money are stacked very heavily against you.

So, if you don't like that variance, just don't effing expose yourself to it. It's a simple matter.

This is true, I myself happen to be on a trny shift in my poker career. So naturally I see this from a trny players perspective. If you are playing poker to make money on a day to day basis, you need to play cash games, and follow a BRM program that you can-and will- stick to. But I think I have heard a lot of people say they enjoy the trny structure for entertainment. Which is the category I now find myself relating to and so responded from that perspective.

 

[Aleksei]

Then don't complain about getting sucked out on because there's nothing you can do to change it. All that playing good players will do is make you not win money (net) even when you hit that solid good run.

 

[_FISHFEET81_]

definitely playing against fish lol you will get bad beated of course once in a while but more than not you will win in the long run. Solid good players are tough always putting pressure but its a different pressure than going all in every time like a fish does and you can snap call with Ax for the most part and be dominating them.

 

[bernotas22]

what do you define as a fish? everybody has there different ideas, play styles differ, those who adapt win those who don't die simple as that

 

[ousooner5]

I do agree it is easier to make decisions on how a good player would play a hand in the same spot I would, which is how I, like many develop their reads. Good players often know this though and that is when things get fun. Overall I think it is more profitable to play the fish, have them get it in bad against you when they finally lose patience, and reep the rewards.

 

[Aleksei]

what do you define as a fish?

Someone who plays too loose or too passive to be profitable.

 

[IM deusXmachina]

Then don't complain about getting sucked out on because there's nothing you can do to change it. All that playing good players will do is make you not win money (net) even when you hit that solid good run.

I don't believe I was ever complaining Aleksei. I was merely stating an opinion of mine, based on previous experiences I have had. It seems like you have some sort of hostility towards my response, or me. I will not take it personally, since you may not have even realized your response came off as such. Just sayin tho...relax

 

[Aleksei]

Here's it in short:

Stating you prefer playing scared nits to fish means you're a decent lag and like action.

Stating you prefer playing regs to fish means you are an idiot, and/or dislike making money.

End of.

 

[n3rv]

I don't think anyone dislikes making money, but I do prefer playing poker against better players in terms of learning and enjoying the rush of the game. Playing fish is like stacking shelves. Playing better opponents is like an <insert favourite sport> match.