Are Double or Nothing SnG's worth it?

[doops]

Bullish has the gist. :adore: Play tight, play smart, get in the money. Easy.

These DON tourneys can really help your bankroll (assuming you can win more than breakeven -- but this is fairly easy to do), but at the lowest level you need patience.

Then again, all poker needs patience. It takes time to build a bankroll, no matter how you are trying to do it. At least, it takes time if you practice bankroll management and do not risk a lot of your roll at once.

There is no greater tool to develop when playing poker than patience. Wait for the hands, the position, the players. Wait for the opportunity. Do not plan on making a killing, plan on grinding.

It's not as fun, nor as adrenaline-charged, to play this way. It is, however, more profitable once you figure out what you are doing. Slow and steady. And few things are more steady (even though rather dull) than DONs.

 

[doops]

for heck sake every few days someone makes a post like this and then people discuss it and then it goes down and ignored until it basically none existent then someone makes another one and the whole process is repeated. You can make money from double or nothings, you can make money from cash tables, you can make money from normal single table sit and goes or MTTS.

all forms of poker that don't charge an excessive rake you can make money from.

There is nothing special about double or nothings it isn't a new genius easy way to suddenly make money. there is nothing attrocious or wrong with double or nothings it is not impossible to make money from them. There as profitable as normal standard single table sngs if you know what your doing. Just some people prefer different types of poker.

True enough. I think DONs are pretty easy but not much fun. The high ITM makes them more likely to be profitable -- if you can regularly make the top 3 (top 33%) in a 9 person SNG, then a game where the top 50% pay should work even better. They just don't pay as well, so you have to play more.

 

[steak vegita]

Are these things profitable? I'm a cash game player but the thought of such easy money is tempting...are these games worth it?

Brought my bankroll from 8$ to 117$ in a day. Idk if it's just me but i never lost one. It's just my kinda game i guess. And they only take like an hour so if your'e playing a 20$ game your making like 18.40$ an hour

 

[BuggyX]

i did and still do sometimes won more in the double or nothing sitngos than in any other sitngo so far. 50% will get itm thats pretty good.

 

[donstar]

I dont like the idea that if you lose your first double or nothing and enter another one and win you will still be down because of the rake.

 

[PokerBrat010]

I dont like the idea that if you lose your first double or nothing and enter another one and win you will still be down because of the rake.

rakeback can combat this

 

[kmixer]

I dont like the idea that if you lose your first double or nothing and enter another one and win you will still be down because of the rake.

True but the rake on these is 10% for the turbos and 15% on the regular games. Compared to the rake of the regular 9 man SnGs at 20% it really isn;t that bad. Enter a regular (non DoN) 1 table SnG at 1.20 and lose. You now have to come in at least 2nd in the next one you play to be ahead. Third won't do it at 1.80

 

[LRPharm54]

Thanks Luke

I appreciate the stats and it did make me think further into the games. Appreciate your input. Sounds like you know what you are talking about.

depends what stake and how many your playing at once. When I do them I do 15 at a time and only need to win 9/15 for a reasonable profit.

thats 60% btw.

I suppose if your playing less tables at a time you would need to win a higher % for fast bank roll growth.

but for practicable purposes I will assume out of 100 sit and goes. now if we are playing the turbo double or nothings on stars lets say $5.20 level, then we need to attain a 10% ROI really or there abouts as this is what top professionals say a winning player should be making from standard sit and go single tables. so we would have staked $520 if we played 100 of these. therefore we would need to get back $572. in order to do that we would need to win 57.2% to of these.

If however your doing the non turbos which charge 8% rake you would be staking $540 and thus would need to get back $594. thus you would need to win 59.4% of these to achieve 10% roi.

these figures are not unrealistic and I generaly find I achieve close to 15% ROI on these. I believe its the lower rake that gives me the ROI boost. Well actually I don't just believe i know.

 

[JOEBOB69]

WurlyQ an luke just wondering whats your vpp\pfr in these are?I played alot of these when they first came out,but computer crashed lost all my stats.Btw i belive someone said they where easier at first an i belive that myself.Right now i just started playing a few of these again (just a few hundred) with a 11\9 is this about right?My itm is around 58%.

 

[kmixer]

I don;t understand why anyone would think that these do not have a good chance to make money. I went over the math of this once before and it cme out to be that if you finished in the money (5th or better) twice on these you would be in the same shape as if you finished in the money on a regular 9 player SnG and came in 3rd. Let's look at it again

2 Double or nothing = Buy in 2.20 (if playing turbo) = Win both $4
2 Regular SnGs Buy in 2.40 = Come in third both times $3.60

Now of course if you finish 2nd or 1st either of the time or both then the possibility of making more is always there. Coming in 2nd both times would give you $4.80. You can mess around with the numbers knowng that 1st pays 4.00, 2nd pays 2.40 and 3rd pays 1.60

Do the people that think DoN games are bad believe that they have a better chance of coming in 2nd on a regular SnG thean they do coming in 5th?

 

[WurlyQ]

WurlyQ an luke just wondering whats your vpp\pfr in these are?I played alot of these when they first came out,but computer crashed lost all my stats.Btw i belive someone said they where easier at first an i belive that myself.Right now i just started playing a few of these again (just a few hundred) with a 11\9 is this about right?My itm is around 58%.

According to my database, most people who are successful are roughly in the 8/7 to 14/12 range. The disparity within this range occurs during the early stages (10/20 and 15/30) where there is some maneuverability based on your postflop edge against fish. I start out around 3/2 over the first two blind levels and peak around 15/14 by 75/150 and 100/200 blind levels. As always, stats are only a general guide and looking at specific hands and concepts are more important. Good luck.

 

[LRPharm54]

Double or Nothing games

I gave it a shot and did ok, but I won't play it regularly, I want to try RUSH next and I will let you know how it goes.

 

[witchywitchy]

DONs the object is to survive. That requires a different skill set than playing to win. Forget aggression, forget calling to see a flop. I find after a few days of DON my regular game is affected... I subconsciously fall into a DON pattern of play.

Conversely if I haven't played DONs for awhile I have to keep reminding myself to fold hands I would normally play. To consistently be ITM I find I have to also pay more attention to DONs than I do regular SNGs. Playing passively means also being constantly on the lookout for an opportunity to grab some chips.

 

[swingro]

DONs the object is to survive. That requires a different skill set than playing to win. Forget aggression, forget calling to see a flop. I find after a few days of DON my regular game is affected... I subconsciously fall into a DON pattern of play.

Conversely if I haven't played DONs for awhile I have to keep reminding myself to fold hands I would normally play. To consistently be ITM I find I have to also pay more attention to DONs than I do regular SNGs. Playing passively means also being constantly on the lookout for an opportunity to grab some chips.

It is true that they affect your regullar game.
But if u become a specialist in those u do not have to play any other type of game. It is enough to win 2 out of 3 and u are on profit. Playing DONs 3-4 tables at a time and winning most of them will bring u a resonable amount of cash.
But do not get confused ppl. It is not the easyer game for a beginner. Up to 2 + dollars buy-in there are still lot of donks but 5$+ DONs or higher are another thing. There are waiting the big guys and u are the fish if u do not play this type of game to perfection.