quick
Legend
Silver Level
Math is definitely an important part of the decision making process in each move we make in poker; esp starting hands, pot odds and chances of cards showing up on the board. Without a basic understanding of odds I doubt you can ever become a break even player let alone a winning player.
But as others said, instinct is important too because sometimes an opponent will not care about odds (which you want to exploit) or they will exploit you by betting based on the board to try to deceive you (by denying your draws with big bets or by repping big made draws against what they think you hold).
Implied odds often comes up when considering instinct and while we can debate the validity of implied odds for days, i think as they say "it depends." If I think my opponent will make a call or pay me off more times than not when I hit a strong hand on turn or river with slightly less than pot odds, I'll often go with it and take the stacks. But of course again it depends and I think implied odds and instinct should not take too much importance over the realities of basic odds and math.
But as others said, instinct is important too because sometimes an opponent will not care about odds (which you want to exploit) or they will exploit you by betting based on the board to try to deceive you (by denying your draws with big bets or by repping big made draws against what they think you hold).
Implied odds often comes up when considering instinct and while we can debate the validity of implied odds for days, i think as they say "it depends." If I think my opponent will make a call or pay me off more times than not when I hit a strong hand on turn or river with slightly less than pot odds, I'll often go with it and take the stacks. But of course again it depends and I think implied odds and instinct should not take too much importance over the realities of basic odds and math.
0546474
Legend
Loyaler
I think that in any case, by looking at the cards, you determine whether to play with these cards or not, even at a subconscious level you are making some calculation! you do not play in the dark without opening the cards)))))
akmost
Rising Star
Loyaler
gabpoker
Visionary
Silver Level
S
spottedflyer
Visionary
Silver Level
I actually do calculate, how many cards left in the deck would beat me for example, what is the chance that someone has a same card as me with a stronger kicker and stuff like that. I guess thats why i fold some bluffs.
danoscar
Legend
Bronze Level
Calculate before bet?
Man, this is a very good question. I think I have been down each and every avenue that exists with this. Poker trackers, odds calculators, HUDs, personal journals, tournament software, training software on sites and also read many books. I think of all the things I have done, the personal journal of my own plays helped the most. I was able to eliminate some holes. I now rely on my years of experience, but I can say that I still learn almost daily something new. Good Luck!
Man, this is a very good question. I think I have been down each and every avenue that exists with this. Poker trackers, odds calculators, HUDs, personal journals, tournament software, training software on sites and also read many books. I think of all the things I have done, the personal journal of my own plays helped the most. I was able to eliminate some holes. I now rely on my years of experience, but I can say that I still learn almost daily something new. Good Luck!
Q
q10tarantino
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Sometimes when I get far in a tournament, that is when I stop using odds so much.
A lot of the time people are just betting into you because of position or they have a bigger chip stack.
If someone min. raises my big blind and there is an ante, I am often getting the right pot odds. But even if I call and hit with a marginal hand it's hard to call a continuation bet in that situation.
It's like if I run the numbers technically I'm getting the right pot odds to call but after the flop I'm not actually win the amount of pots I should be.
A lot of the time people are just betting into you because of position or they have a bigger chip stack.
If someone min. raises my big blind and there is an ante, I am often getting the right pot odds. But even if I call and hit with a marginal hand it's hard to call a continuation bet in that situation.
It's like if I run the numbers technically I'm getting the right pot odds to call but after the flop I'm not actually win the amount of pots I should be.
danoscar
Legend
Bronze Level
Do I calculate my decisions?
This is a very good question! My answer is absolutely. I have logged how many times I have bet each specific hand such as AK suited and AK not. I have logged carefully when (early, late, cutoff, button, small blind and big) I bet each hand. I logged when I won in each position and when I lost. I looked at both the % won in each position and the overall win % over all positions. Out of 5200 hands seen, I won 242 out of 449. I just setup an Excel Vlookup table. The lookup has each specific hand I have bet in one column, the number times won in the next column, the number times lost in the next, the % won in a third column (3 columns for each of the five table positions won/loss = 15 columns + card column). In the 17th column, I setup the total times bet each hand. In the 18th column, I setup the number of times bet and won. In the 19th column and final column, I setup the total % won for each hand.
Now comes the best part. On a second worksheet, I setup the vlookup formula and referenced an input box. When I get a hand such as KQS, I type in AKS and the vlookup gives me the % won overall with that hand as well as the % won in each position. Bam! Just like that. I update my table after almost each tournament. It is a lot of work. Takes time and accuracy. But in the end, it has place me in the top 10% almost always, just recently 2nd in a tournament of nearly 550 people. Of course, I have lost some but, the accuracy is amazing and has kept me from making bad moves when they look good, such as one recent hand was AJO which I found I was not having luck with, even though I thought I was.
Good luck at the tables everybody!
This is a very good question! My answer is absolutely. I have logged how many times I have bet each specific hand such as AK suited and AK not. I have logged carefully when (early, late, cutoff, button, small blind and big) I bet each hand. I logged when I won in each position and when I lost. I looked at both the % won in each position and the overall win % over all positions. Out of 5200 hands seen, I won 242 out of 449. I just setup an Excel Vlookup table. The lookup has each specific hand I have bet in one column, the number times won in the next column, the number times lost in the next, the % won in a third column (3 columns for each of the five table positions won/loss = 15 columns + card column). In the 17th column, I setup the total times bet each hand. In the 18th column, I setup the number of times bet and won. In the 19th column and final column, I setup the total % won for each hand.
Now comes the best part. On a second worksheet, I setup the vlookup formula and referenced an input box. When I get a hand such as KQS, I type in AKS and the vlookup gives me the % won overall with that hand as well as the % won in each position. Bam! Just like that. I update my table after almost each tournament. It is a lot of work. Takes time and accuracy. But in the end, it has place me in the top 10% almost always, just recently 2nd in a tournament of nearly 550 people. Of course, I have lost some but, the accuracy is amazing and has kept me from making bad moves when they look good, such as one recent hand was AJO which I found I was not having luck with, even though I thought I was.
Good luck at the tables everybody!
