Cash game mentality vs. tournament mentality

[Staneff]

Actually I love playing cash games and I'm better in cash games but tournaments cashing gives bigger money profit so for now they are preferred.

 

[tbdbitl]

MTT's are more profitable than cash games for most people.

This certainly isn't the case for me. My cash game play win % and profits are much larger than my tournament play. And, from those I know they tend to believe that their cash games fund their tournament play.

However, tournaments gives a shot of a larger payout.

 

[Lheticus]

Holy shlamoley, this is still a thing. Hang on while I catch up.

*10 mins later*

Okay. Now, I feel a good rule of thumb for this sort of thing is "if more than one person says it, there's almost definitely something to it." That is, two or more people make the exact same case separately rather than saying "I agree" with the first guy or something. There are two things I've noticed in this thread that fulfill this criteria:

1. Cash games are very different after the flop, requiring post-flop aggression far more commonly/intensely.

2. There are external factors in tournament play that require far more frequent playstyle adjustments or "gear changes". I made a case for this in the initial post myself.

Thanks all for keeping this thread alive--just thought I'd sum up what I feel can be got out of it with total confidence so far.

 

[KALUGAJ]

Cash game are more action and therefore often with games, tournaments are about patience

 

[BullWink]

I play just the opposite

We always want to increase the chips in tournament so we play normal cards too .... but in cash game we should win so we play only good hand

This is exactly opposite to how I play. In tournaments, I play very few hands, but wait until I have a decent one before committing many chips. In cash games, the table size is smaller (usually 5 or 6 players verses 9 or 10 on tournaments), so it requires you to play more hands.

Some of the other differences are:
- In a cash game, you often come out even or a little bit ahead. In tournaments you often loose all your buy-in
- In a cash game, if you go on tilt, you can get up and leave and take your money with you. In a tournament you are committed.
- I generally have a better read on players in a cash game, due to length of time spent with them at the tables. In tournaments, the players change more frequently.
- In a tournament my strategy changes significantly depending on whether it is the beginning, middle or end of the tournament. In cash games it will be more the same. Both will change due to circumstance/players.
- Stealing blinds is much more a part of tournament play compared to cash

 

[Ducbim]

Because of different blind structure cash game & tournament are different game. In cash game you can refill your stack any time you want so you have no pressure to steal blinds very often. On the other hands blinds and ante in tourneys keep increasing, so you must attack blinds regularly and sometimes take huge risk.

 

[PokerJudas]

I have been shocked that lately I have turned around my cash-game to be profitable, and while I consider myself a tournament player I have lost more in that section. It is an excellent question I have not been able to get an answer to, until I started to look more into cashgames. For me the biggest difference is that I play position ALOT more in cashgames. You also have to de-attach to your hands, and in that aspect its a great learning experience. I have learned to fold marginal hands in cash-games, 4-betting more (new to me) but helps me get off J-J and Q-Q sometimes. Its a more raw game since u are so directly in contact with your bankroll...

 

[thetick33]

I'm starting this thread because as I go forward, cash games are something I NEED to grow into as a poker player. I've struggled greatly with then in all prior attempts to play them because when I was learning how to play, all opportunities to play I had were either heads-up with my grandfather (and we didn't usually even play hold'em!) or later on, in amateur leagues, usually in libation related businesses (bars, pubs...if you're from whatever government does that sort of thing, I'll gladly sell the acronym Libation Related Business to you for the government's use in reports or whatever.) These leagues would always, always be a tournament format--qualifiers akin to fast-moving 1 or 2 table sit and gos leading into a multi-table tournament with merchandise related prizes, like a TV or something for the tournament winner, for example.

The nature of my exposure to poker has led me to adopt what I consider to be a "tournament mentality" that unfailingly hampers any effort I make in micro stakes cash games. For now, I plan to focus on single table SNG games, but eventually, I want to go beyond just online play, and SNGs don't...well...exist very much in brick and mortar as far ask I know. Therefore, my eventual goal is to be able to play in both cash games and tournament games on the level of "winning play", but this is one hell of a gear shift to even attempt to make. The purpose I have in mind for this thread is to compile input from as many here as possible about how I might achieve this--everything from what to do different in cash games to how to get myself to do it without losing part or even all of what is really starting to develop into a winning tournament mentality.

I figure I'll start things off by elucidating on what I know of the mentalities between these two formats and the differences between them. In the cash game mentality, a positive "expected value" is utterly paramount--and if this principle is applied judiciously enough, if you accurately make enough plays with positive expected value, you are virtually assured of profit--provided you put in enough playing time so that the concept of the "long run" applies. This, to me, is cash games in their most distilled, simplified or possibly OVERsimplified form.

The tournament mentality is entirely different, for a simple, yet probably not particularly obvious reason: the "long run" does not exist. Each tournament is its own microcosm--you either have chips or you don't, you either make the money or you don't, and there is no dipping into a bankroll to cover the worse instances of negative swings. Rebuy tournaments mitigate this, but by no means extend ANY tournament to a point where the "long run" applies.

What causes the long run to not exist is simple progression--the blinds increasing after every X minutes or hours--in the case of online play, this rarely reaches above 20 minutes afaik. This change is simple to execute, but the fact that the blinds increase in tournaments and stay static in cash games changes, I would say almost literally everything. I remember someone telling me that an amount of BBs that I had bet and been raised into in a cash game, I think it was something like 15, was like nothing to walk away from in terms of a cash game. I cited a different reason--that there really wasn't a lot of respectably sized pots being played at that table--and maybe a couple others, but in addition to them, my tournament mentality tells me to see fifteen big blinds as HUGE, because in many cases, it can be. In turbo tournaments as well as in crucial stages of any tournament like a proximity to the money bubble or the late stages, fifteen big blinds can be MORE than the difference between making some money and making NO money in the whole tournament, or making a lot of money or a little, long run be damned.

Well, that's what I have to say for now, and with that I open the floor.

I learned how to play limit for rake or non tournament play and go lower to start that has helped my game and winnings. Only answering cause am a die hard tournament player. Is more my style just wait let game come to you and it usually does.

I was not as good of a player till went and played limit a long time it slowed my game down and helps live play and play all around.

Good luck you always have to learn and evolve and grow as a player

 

[thetick33]

This is exactly opposite to how I play. In tournaments, I play very few hands, but wait until I have a decent one before committing many chips. In cash games, the table size is smaller (usually 5 or 6 players verses 9 or 10 on tournaments), so it requires you to play more hands.

Some of the other differences are:
- In a cash game, you often come out even or a little bit ahead. In tournaments you often loose all your buy-in
- In a cash game, if you go on tilt, you can get up and leave and take your money with you. In a tournament you are committed.
- I generally have a better read on players in a cash game, due to length of time spent with them at the tables. In tournaments, the players change more frequently.
- In a tournament my strategy changes significantly depending on whether it is the beginning, middle or end of the tournament. In cash games it will be more the same. Both will change due to circumstance/players.
- Stealing blinds is much more a part of tournament play compared to cash

I like this am adding take notes especially on marginal players whether is ring or tournament. I think that is my biggest downfall is not identifying players correctly online

 

[veronica]

From what i have read are all in the same, my case is also that get away MTT and cash tables end my dreams of being a star ja!

 

[romych007]

I've been playing tournament
poker, and it has a large
variance that interferes with
the play on the course, but it is
much more than a cash prize
game

 

[Mark Gavr]

Of course I choose tournaments, as cash games are profitable, and more profitable, I do not see

 

[rugby0]

Great thread. do not have anything to add but will keep reading.

 

[IronMount]

Find myself playing conservative in live tournaments, almost tip toeing and committing when i feel im a head. I have fianl tabled and cashed for more frequently then i do playing cash game. I play 1-2 and try to keep a close strategic format that resembles my tourny format but find myself being caught from behind or sucked out on far to many times. Maybe im not aggressive enough for a cash game oranf noy comforyable enough to lose X amount oc dollars compaired to tourney chips?? Good thread,great feed back guys

 

[jazzaxe]

its all one big poker game. You never win, you never lose. Add up your wins and losses and you know where you are. It is hard to crow about small wins when you take big losses. So getting in and out of games at certain times with certain amounts is not as important as you might think.

 

[carsguitars777]

I actualy have the oppisite experiance than you, I grew up on cash games and started playing torneys later... I also still reather play cash games as they are more prifitable to me and I just probably straight more enjoy them.. But I also like playing torneys now as well and I also am profitable in them but not as much as cash games.. the money and time I invest in cash games reaps me a better award than the same money and time in torneys. I do play both games with a similar stratergy, but I do suffer the bubble effect, trying to make sure I cash out in torneys wich is probably the reason for my lower profit in torneys. there is alot of luck involved with torneys as you have to get the cards in the time alloted or you will lose and I dont really like this fact of veriance, especialy if im drawing bad.. torneys you are flying faster and more blind. I also think torneys are more "fun" to play in, but in the end its more fun for me to make more money.

To me torney play is to make sure I get in the money... cash games im in the money as long as I play properly... but it does feel great to win or final table a big tourney thats fo sure.

 

[TempoShaman]

Its funny you created this thread, as I was thinking about tournament strategy/mindset last week. I am a cash game player and while I have had success in some tourneys, they are definitely not my specialty. Anyways, I was playing the Bovada $5k freeroll and really needed to cash to re-build my BR. So I really started thinking about my strategy for this particular tournament and how I wanted to approach it.

As I began thinking about it, I realized my downfall is usually getting over involved in a hand that I could have easily avoided, mostly due to a bad bluff or way to aggro. I am an avid golfer and I remember a saying the pros always use - "You cant win a tourney on Thursday, but you can lose one".

I realized that, at least for me, this was sound advice. There is no reason to get out of hand or get wild early in a tourney when there is a lot of play left. Just play solid and let the game come to you. Open up as the tourney grinds on and the table play allows for it. This may not be advice for all, but it has worked for me.

So, now to the comparison for cash games. Obviously the blinds dont go up, so you get to play your style throughout the session - blinds are not forcing you to make plays you would prefer not to. It is important to mix it up throughout the session, especially if the same players are at the table. I find that it is important (at least for me) to open my starting range in cash games.

More to come on this - but I gotta run to work.

Being a golfer as well, you nailed it.

 

[12551255]

I was a good toury player, but sucked at cash games. My cousin kept telling me the difference was that in cash games you can always buy more chips. Well, dud! It took about 6 months to sink in, but once it did, I became a winning cash player. I stopped waiting for the nuts and became more of an aggressive player. It made all the difference.

 

[nsinalis11]

Cash games my favorite game!

I am an addicted cash gamer when i play a tour i am waiting to finish and take the price so i can play cash games!
I wonder if out there is anybody like me?

 

[dopeddrgn]

When I first started playing I was much better at MTT/SNG. I always wandered over to cash games but could never quite get an edge. A few years later (now) I play cash exclusively with the occasional SNG. Found that cash has less variance, a bad night is breaking even. Cash is good to me. Average night I'm up 5 to 6 BI.

 

[dagG1]

My poker game begins from cash games, was not bad but i decided to try my luck in tournaments

 

[veltins]

cash games are the best Thing for lower varience.. unless like some maniac who shoves every Hand, they gonna loose huge Money in cash by tiliting.. the real money is in cash games.. mtts are huge fields n Long shot..most best pros live from cash games

 

[12551255]

I prefer cash games. I have to be in the mood for a tournaments. It's a totally different mid set. And even more so, love live cash games.

 

[LeeCallaghan]

great job
my mental tournament are bad and I loss every time! =-(

 

[snowsifter]

Play tighter on both. You can use this same style of play on both which still results in yielding you a lot more money