What’s the play for hero flopping a straight?

[rvnhss]

Hi there

How would you play this scenario and would you play it differently in a MTT?

You have KhQS and the flop comes 9cJd10d. Or any straight with two suited on the board for that matter. Those flush chasers (that always seem to never fold and win against me) are always a big threat.

Do you jam? Try to get value from a possible missed flush? Hope another K doesn’t come and give AQ the nuts? If OOP, Check to see what your opponent does first?

Cheers

 

[Aballinamion]

Hi there

How would you play this scenario and would you play it differently in a MTT?

You have KhQS and the flop comes 9cJd10d. Or any straight with two suited on the board for that matter. Those flush chasers (that always seem to never fold and win against me) are always a big threat.

Do you jam? Try to get value from a possible missed flush? Hope another K doesn’t come and give AQ the nuts? If OOP, Check to see what your opponent does first?

Cheers

I suppose you should give us more information about the hand in question.
What is your effective stack, from which position you are playing, is it a heads-up or a 3-way pot, is that a single raise or a 3-bet pot, have you called preflop, what was the sizing used for the raise, etc
Please, provide us more details

 

[puzzlefish]

Unless you are super deep, you are probably going to jam.

 

[rvnhss]

I suppose you should give us more information about the hand in question.
What is your effective stack, from which position you are playing, is it a heads-up or a 3-way pot, is that a single raise or a 3-bet pot, have you called preflop, what was the sizing used for the raise, etc
Please, provide us more details

3 situations to analyse:

1. Cash game. Heads up, stack 50BB each. Hero raised pre flop 3BB in the cut off. Villian and known flush chaser calls on the button.

2. Cash game. Heads up, stack 50BB each. Villian raises 3BB in the cut off. Hero calls on the button.

3. MTT early stages. Heads up, stack 70BB each. Hero raises preflop 3BB from the cut off. Villian calls on the button.

 

[Aballinamion]

3 situations to analyse:

1. Cash game. Heads up, stack 50BB each. Hero raised pre flop 3BB in the cut off. Villian and known flush chaser calls on the button.

2. Cash game. Heads up, stack 50BB each. Villian raises 3BB in the cut off. Hero calls on the button.

3. MTT early stages. Heads up, stack 70BB each. Hero raises preflop 3BB from the cut off. Villian calls on the button.

Considering you are both playing with only 50 BB effective stack, I will assume this is the NLHE micro-stakes.
You can certainly jam the flop OOP here but I don’t believe it would be optimal: we use to play cash games having 100 BB effective stack, the whole cash strategy is based on deep stacks, and I’m really inclined to agree to your choice, once you are shorty stack, the odds are different, and pushing on the flop wouldn’t be a bad idea at all.
The problem of pushing on the flop is that you give villain a chance to easily fold its losing hands and call only with hands having great equity.
If I was playing deep stacked I would have checked this flop OOP, because this is the action I do most of times when I caught myself out in scenarios as you described, in spite of hitting the nuts or not hitting anything.
If your villain is a known flush chaser, I would wait for the turn to see if it completes or not. If your villain is indeed, a flush chaser, it will call a jam on the turn having less than 20% equity for the river.
And in the case villain completes his equity on the turn and comes accelerating the pot, you can easily fold dominated hands.
For MTT’s I won’t risk a comment, because I don’t like talking about things that I don’t fully understand. Being aware of the basics of tournaments, I wouldn’t recommend jamming the flop in a situation as this, specially if it is the first level of blinds. But as I have said, I play only freerolls, you should look for players that use to play more these style.

 

[dreamer13]

There are very few things in poker that are as satisfying as a flop straight. In these scenarios, you should ALWAYS check-raise with your flop straight. The thing is, your opponent will still call with a bunch of weak hands even against a check-raise.The only time a check back would make any sense is if you're facing a total aggro-maniac fish just waiting to overbet the turn and shove the rest on the river against your back check. Maybe he will be on some kind of mega-tilt or something like that. Then, and only then, can you check back with your flop straight.

 

[Gallarado777]

I would pick up a player who wants to see a flash, but if the opponent's card comes out, I would play carefully and check his reaction, and if it didn't, I would get even more, it all depends on the situation

 

[Rockyfour]

Your supposed to bet small with your entire betting range on lock down boards I believe. I am primarily a Omaha player but I'm pretty sure that's the 'correct' play.

 

[puzzlefish]

This isn't a locked down board by any means and, in my experience, flopped straights usually aren't the winning hand by the river, especially when they are not Broadway straights and are on a wet board.

 

[Rockyfour]

This isn't a locked down board by any means and, in my experience, flopped straights usually aren't the winning hand by the river, especially when they are not Broadway straights and are on a wet board.

In my opinion it is a locked down board, because there are many hands that will call and are just dead or close to dead. It's very likely that you will have the best hand by the river. Opponent will have a flush draw less than 10% of the time if he's playing proper ranges, and will have a set almost never unless if he 3-bet or was the original opener.

Like your making assumptions that your opponent are going to have hands that aren't dead. I have a feeling you might be reaching this conclusion based on the fact you are betting big. If you are making big bets, than the hands that are going to call are going to have more potential to make the nuts on the river. So you end up with flush draws, strong gutters that call a single bet, sets, 2 pairs. But if you bet small there are going to be a lot of hands that peel that are just basically dead.

I looked it up, some professionals consider this board as lock down, others would consider it not a lock down board. It's more of a concept not really a definition.

Still the GTO play is to bet small with your entire betting range I'm like 90%(+) sure.

 

[Rockyfour]

Like here is a video of grand master Phil Galfond stating this would be considered a lock down board. I screen shotted his examples just so you don't have to click on it.

 

[Aballinamion]

Like here is a video of grand master Phil Galfond stating this would be considered a lock down board. I screen shotted his examples just so you don't have to click on it.

View attachment 325091

Thanks for your attention on this subject mate! It is very important for us to keep the cash games threads alive.

 

[nerobs9]

The main thing is that there is no flush combination for the opponent 😀

 

[steve01991]

I would make a bet that would chase the flush chasers away.

 

[Station_Master]

In my opinion it is a locked down board, because there are many hands that will call and are just dead or close to dead. It's very likely that you will have the best hand by the river. Opponent will have a flush draw less than 10% of the time if he's playing proper ranges, and will have a set almost never unless if he 3-bet or was the original opener.

Like your making assumptions that your opponent are going to have hands that aren't dead. I have a feeling you might be reaching this conclusion based on the fact you are betting big. If you are making big bets, than the hands that are going to call are going to have more potential to make the nuts on the river. So you end up with flush draws, strong gutters that call a single bet, sets, 2 pairs. But if you bet small there are going to be a lot of hands that peel that are just basically dead.

I looked it up, some professionals consider this board as lock down, others would consider it not a lock down board. It's more of a concept not really a definition.

Still the GTO play is to bet small with your entire betting range I'm like 90%(+) sure.

Are you sure about this? Maybe in PLO, but there are so many nut changing cards. Any diamond, K,Q, J, T or 9 change the nuts. That's 23 cards or about half the deck! OK it's unlikely a Q comes and you are up against AK but you will struggle to get further action from hand not containing a K.

Personally I would cbet draw heavy boards for a large size, with both bluffs (draws) and value. So easy for villain to flop a piece and pay off at least one bet.

 

[Rockyfour]

The fact that their are many nut changing cards is more relevant playing PLO as it's more likely those cards will hit the opponent than NL. However the reason why it's called a lock down board, is because it's hard for your opponent to have anything to play back at you with. You shouldn't always assume your opponent has a flush draw just because you have a straight, or even a hand that has any equity against your straight.

 

[Station_Master]

The fact that their are many nut changing cards is more relevant playing PLO as it's more likely those cards will hit the opponent than NL. However the reason why it's called a lock down board, is because it's hard for your opponent to have anything to play back at you with. You shouldn't always assume your opponent has a flush draw just because you have a straight, or even a hand that has any equity against your straight.

But what about QJ, AJ, QT, JT etc we want to get value from these hands

 

[Rockyfour]

But what about QJ, AJ, QT, JT etc we want to get value from these hands

Yes you bet small with your entire range and those hands would call maybe even elect to raise or bluff raise with a hand like AQ, or AK, or just random air.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Bet, bet and bet

 

[makisaa]

Depending from the players you play with, 3bb bet then 4bb, then if you have the nuts you go all in.

 

[Baldy86]

if i sense that my oppnent has a flush draw i will already bet on the flop . same if i sense that he has hit a pair . but often especially when there are several players involved i will slowplay it as much as i can and then if on the river i have the nuts i will raise/reraise as much as possible

 

[Kinalha]

if i sense that my oppnent has a flush draw i will already bet on the flop . same if i sense that he has hit a pair . but often especially when there are several players involved i will slowplay it as much as i can and then if on the river i have the nuts i will raise/reraise as much as possible

How you "sense" before any action from him? Hahaha

 

[Aballinamion]

How you "sense" before any action from him? Hahaha

I shouldn’t reply this but I will take some time, although some players just post for the sake of numbers and not learning and sharing their experience.
When our dear mate states that he “senses” the opponent had a flush draw, a flush or any other hand or draw, I’m inclined to interpret this as the same of postflop range reading.
I really don’t understand the point of posts like this, neither could I figure the meaning of the fun.
Some players don’t even play cash games and like to give opinions or post whatever they feel inclined to post just to have a number.
I don’t intend to create a hearth or a firework with this thread, but I believe that before posting we must have something to add to our community so we can edify and build a respectable room for learning, not making fun out of our mates for nothing, and having nothing to increase our solid professional relationship.

 

[BOXING71]

maybe this post was created for statistics. But I'm sure that it will be useful for someone. If I catch a straight with a potential flush bro, I go all-in. Then I take a guarantee, it's probably wrong, I guess. the bank has money or, as they say, the flash drive hunter is behindtable. Then you will make a profit ... I am a weak player, this post will be a big joke for you at night

 

[BOXING71]

in the tournament, of course, you need to try to knock out the flash drive hunter or play carefully and see if he reached out or not ...