WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
How deep? I might let a loltourney hand in the mix if it's 100bb deep!
How deep? I might let a loltourney hand in the mix if it's 100bb deep!
B
bigjoker66
Visionary
Silver Level
Ok the first two hands I posted were basically a delayed c-bet which I have been doing more of lately to help with habitual floaters. I find that the delayed c-bet tends to through the floaters off a bit.
In the 3 barrel hand the villain was entering about 60%+ of the pots. then over-betting any sign of weakness. I had a little history with him where I would bet the flop and check fold the turn or bet the flop and turn then check fold the river to an over-bet. My impression was that he would think I had a hand with the past history, and it was very unlikely he had much.
A bit more about me is I work full time and pay maybe 12 hours a week mostly 1 or 2 tabling for fun. I play mostly $2 NL or $0.05/$0.10 limit stud/8 and dabble a bit in $10nl or $25nl. I also play live a bit in $1/$2NL both in casino and home games. I am a winner live and break even online. I have been playing since 2003 online and have not needed to deposit since 2007. Not cashes out much either =) Oh and I am probably more than double the age of most people here which I would guess to be about 21-22 or so. Also have 2 kids under the age of 6.
rssurfer54
Visionary
Silver Level
I wish i had more to say about it :-/. it was quite awhile ago, so i dont remember much about it; I think my read however was that he would bet out on the river with an ace, even if he was checking the turn for pot control. Or maybe that he was pretty fold happy on the river, or (most likely) i just got aggressive on a hunch and it worked out
DawgBones
Legend
Silver Level
So any consideration for being an idiot thinking this was an idiotic shove
Back to the drawing board
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Anyone else a serial floater on Ace high flops?
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP+1: $58.85
CO: $66.55
BTN: $18.00
SB: $50.00
Hero (BB): $59.50
UTG: $50.20
UTG+1: $58.95
MP: $18.00
SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 6:diamond: 6:heart:
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.00
Flop: ($3.00, 2 players) 8:spade: 9:club: A:diamond:
SB bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00
Turn: ($7.00, 2 players) 8:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets $5.00, fold
Hero wins $6.65
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $63.85
UTG: $50.00
CO: $51.35
Hero (BTN): $50.85
SB: $50.25
SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9:spade: J:spade:
fold, CO raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, fold, fold
Flop: ($4.25, 2 players) 3:spade: A:heart: 6:spade:
CO bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75
Turn: ($9.75, 2 players) 6:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets $7.00, fold
Hero wins $9.30
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
Hero (MP+1): $88.20
CO: $100.00
BTN: $56.25
SB: $53.50
BB: $29.25
UTG: $102.70
UTG+1: $54.40
MP: $67.75
SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has J:club: K:club:
fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP raises to $2.50, Hero calls $2.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold
Flop: ($6.25, 2 players) A:club: A:spade: Q:club:
MP bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50
Turn: ($15.25, 2 players) 4:diamond:
MP checks, Hero bets $8.00, fold
Hero wins $14.50
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP+1: $58.85
CO: $66.55
BTN: $18.00
SB: $50.00
Hero (BB): $59.50
UTG: $50.20
UTG+1: $58.95
MP: $18.00
SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 6:diamond: 6:heart:
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.00
Flop: ($3.00, 2 players) 8:spade: 9:club: A:diamond:
SB bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00
Turn: ($7.00, 2 players) 8:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets $5.00, fold
Hero wins $6.65
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $63.85
UTG: $50.00
CO: $51.35
Hero (BTN): $50.85
SB: $50.25
SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9:spade: J:spade:
fold, CO raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, fold, fold
Flop: ($4.25, 2 players) 3:spade: A:heart: 6:spade:
CO bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75
Turn: ($9.75, 2 players) 6:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets $7.00, fold
Hero wins $9.30
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
Hero (MP+1): $88.20
CO: $100.00
BTN: $56.25
SB: $53.50
BB: $29.25
UTG: $102.70
UTG+1: $54.40
MP: $67.75
SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has J:club: K:club:
fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP raises to $2.50, Hero calls $2.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold
Flop: ($6.25, 2 players) A:club: A:spade: Q:club:
MP bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50
Turn: ($15.25, 2 players) 4:diamond:
MP checks, Hero bets $8.00, fold
Hero wins $14.50
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Actually more than 100bb deep, early levels in a 5,000 stack tourney, check-raise allin on the river... with air, ~200bb pot. Would that suffice? lol (cuz that's the one I was thinking of)
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Sure. Post it.
LuckyChippy
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Not at my skates. I'm a serial c-better of them flops, just can't give my opponents credit for doing that yet.
I'm tempted to join in, I used to do all kinda of stupid bluffs but never with any reasoning so it would be a bit pointless. I seem to be better at making the hero calls
.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Not at my skates. I'm a serial c-better of them flops, just can't give my opponents credit for doing that yet.
I'm tempted to join in, I used to do all kinda of stupid bluffs but never with any reasoning so it would be a bit pointless. I seem to be better at making the hero calls
So are most people which is why I'm a serial floater of them.
So when you have less than the Ace are you just ch/folding the turn then? Might want to double occasionally when you run into that guy who always seems to call your flop bets but gives up if you bet the turn.
LuckyChippy
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
So are most people which is why I'm a serial floater of them.
So when you have less than the Ace are you just ch/folding the turn then? Might want to double occasionally when you run into that guy who always seems to call your flop bets but gives up if you bet the turn.
That's what I mean, I don't feel I run into them people very often and I do double barrel but only very good cards like K's and Q's. One of my biggest leaks used to be that I'd call too many c-bets, floating too much and double barrelling too much. Basically giving nobody any credit
. I think I've improved a lot by only double barrelling in very +EV spots.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
That's what I mean, I don't feel I run into them people very often and I do double barrel but only very good cards like K's and Q's. One of my biggest leaks used to be that I'd call too many c-bets, floating too much and double barrelling too much. Basically giving nobody any credit
I though rule #1 was that nobody ever has anything??? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
LuckyChippy
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I though rule #1 was that nobody ever has anything??? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I'm sure I've heard that philosophy from you before
. Maybe I should skip 25 and go straight up to 50? 
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
I don't know if this works but here's one hand where I made stack-killing bluff. While I had 100bb, my villain didn't. Would it still qualify?
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($2.41)
UTG ($8.73)
UTG+1 ($3.71)
MP1 ($4.57)
MP2 ($2.68)
MP3 ($5)
CO ($4.15)
Button ($5.52)
Hero (SB) ($5)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J
, Q
7 folds, Hero bets $0.13, BB calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.30) K
, A
, 8
(2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BB raises $0.45, Hero raises $4.65 (All-In), 1 fold
Total pot: $1.20
Results:
Hero had J
, Q
.
Outcome: Hero won $5.52
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($2.41)
UTG ($8.73)
UTG+1 ($3.71)
MP1 ($4.57)
MP2 ($2.68)
MP3 ($5)
CO ($4.15)
Button ($5.52)
Hero (SB) ($5)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J
7 folds, Hero bets $0.13, BB calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.30) K
Hero bets $0.20, BB raises $0.45, Hero raises $4.65 (All-In), 1 fold
Total pot: $1.20
Results:
Hero had J
Outcome: Hero won $5.52
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
I would certainly prefer 100bb effective but I'll take what I can get at this point.
River raise with an underpair anyone???
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP: $51.50
MP+1: $50.00
CO: $62.75
BTN: $50.00
SB: $99.50
Hero (BB): $56.55
UTG: $33.80
UTG+1: $69.85
SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 4:diamond: 4:heart:
fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.00
Flop: ($3.25, 2 players) Q:diamond: 6:club: J:club:
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00
Turn: ($7.25, 2 players) J:spade:
Hero checks, MP+1 checks
River: ($7.25, 2 players) 9:club:
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $4.50, Hero raises to $13.00, fold
Hero wins $15.45
River raise with an underpair anyone???
Full Tilt - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP: $51.50
MP+1: $50.00
CO: $62.75
BTN: $50.00
SB: $99.50
Hero (BB): $56.55
UTG: $33.80
UTG+1: $69.85
SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 4:diamond: 4:heart:
fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.00
Flop: ($3.25, 2 players) Q:diamond: 6:club: J:club:
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00
Turn: ($7.25, 2 players) J:spade:
Hero checks, MP+1 checks
River: ($7.25, 2 players) 9:club:
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $4.50, Hero raises to $13.00, fold
Hero wins $15.45
B
bigjoker66
Visionary
Silver Level
This is part of the reason I do the delayed c-bet I posted 2 hand Histories of earlier in this thread. This is to try to combat the habitual floaters.
On any one of those hands you posted, if you had been checked too on the flop, would you have bet? If you bet, what would you do with a check raise on the flop? What would you do if it went check check on the flop then they bet 65% pot on the turn?
Last edited:
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Do you delay your cbet if you actually hold the Ace? Makes it hard to get value if that's the case. Well ch/raises on paired boards like that are BS 90% of the time so depending on the rest of your stats I'd sometimes call the ch/r and then, like always, see what you did on the turn.
Also that flop's not going ch/ch when I'm in position. My default is to bet if the PF raiser fails to cbet.
Honestly playing against me has to be the easiest thing in the world, just keep check/calling until I give you my stack.
B
bigjoker66
Visionary
Silver Level
Do you delay your cbet if you actually hold the Ace? Makes it hard to get value if that's the case. Well ch/raises on paired boards like that are BS 90% of the time so depending on the rest of your stats I'd sometimes call the ch/r and then, like always, see what you did on the turn.
Also that flop's not going ch/ch when I'm in position. My default is to bet if the PF raiser fails to cbet.
Honestly playing against me has to be the easiest thing in the world, just keep check/calling until I give you my stack.
If I have seen the tendency to float I will check if I hold an ace some of the time. Maybe 10%. You want to punish floaters if you hold the goods though.
A lot depends on history. I tend not to delay c-bet until I have seen floats.
GunslingerZ
Rock Star
Silver Level
full tilt poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter
SB: $97.50
BB: $50.00
UTG: $119.40
UTG+1: $33.95
MP1: $46.75
MP2: $25.00
CO: $74.85
Hero (BTN): $55.35
Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with 5 ♥ 5 ♣
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1
Flop: ($4.75) 4 ♠ J ♣ 6 ♠ (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $10, MP1 folds, Hero calls $6.75
Turn: ($24.75) T ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13.25, BB calls $13.25
River: ($51.25) 3 ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30.60 all in, BB folds
Final Pot: $51.25
Hero wins $48.70
(Rake: $2.55)
The original raiser in MP is a 13/8 nit, who plays very straightforward. Once he doesn't C-bet into 2 opponents, he is almost always done with the hand, so I try to take it down, but get check-raised by the BB.
Now the villain in the BB is a pretty TAG player. After my initial thought of "well, that didn't work", I thought of what was going through his head. He probably also knew the PFR was giving up, and that I would be stabbing with most of my pre-flop calling range. Yet, looking at the board, there were very few strong hands he could have, a spattering of draws, and a lot of air himself. If he had position on me, I would have given up, but, not believing him, I called, planning on seeing if he blinked later in the hand.
The turn makes the board very wet, doesn't complete any draws, and only helps TT and JT. Yet the villain checks. This villain was aggressive enough that if he check-raised the flop with a draw, I believed he would fire again, and certainly would have bet with a made hand. So I bet enough to make it look like I was value betting, but leaving enough for a decent sized bet on the river. When villain now calls, I'm putting him on some middle strength hand with showdown value, or a draw.
The river fills the backdoor flush, and a straight if villain had 75. Yet the villain checks once more. I don't put him at all on a flush, and he would most likely bet if his draw hit, or if he for some reason was slowplaying a strong hand this whole time. Since I actually have some marginal showdown value with my small pair, I gave thought to checking back, since I beat all of his non-pair draws. But it would really suck if had Jx or 6x or 99 and was getting sticky with them. Plus, I believed I could credibly represent a wide range of strong hands with a line of betting all three streets, that any medium strength hand of his couldn't call.
The key, I believe, is that the villain was a thinking player. It's difficult to represent a hand, or range of hands, if a villain isn't thinking about your cards in the first place.
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter
SB: $97.50
BB: $50.00
UTG: $119.40
UTG+1: $33.95
MP1: $46.75
MP2: $25.00
CO: $74.85
Hero (BTN): $55.35
Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with 5 ♥ 5 ♣
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1
Flop: ($4.75) 4 ♠ J ♣ 6 ♠ (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $10, MP1 folds, Hero calls $6.75
Turn: ($24.75) T ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13.25, BB calls $13.25
River: ($51.25) 3 ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30.60 all in, BB folds
Final Pot: $51.25
Hero wins $48.70
(Rake: $2.55)
The original raiser in MP is a 13/8 nit, who plays very straightforward. Once he doesn't C-bet into 2 opponents, he is almost always done with the hand, so I try to take it down, but get check-raised by the BB.
Now the villain in the BB is a pretty TAG player. After my initial thought of "well, that didn't work", I thought of what was going through his head. He probably also knew the PFR was giving up, and that I would be stabbing with most of my pre-flop calling range. Yet, looking at the board, there were very few strong hands he could have, a spattering of draws, and a lot of air himself. If he had position on me, I would have given up, but, not believing him, I called, planning on seeing if he blinked later in the hand.
The turn makes the board very wet, doesn't complete any draws, and only helps TT and JT. Yet the villain checks. This villain was aggressive enough that if he check-raised the flop with a draw, I believed he would fire again, and certainly would have bet with a made hand. So I bet enough to make it look like I was value betting, but leaving enough for a decent sized bet on the river. When villain now calls, I'm putting him on some middle strength hand with showdown value, or a draw.
The river fills the backdoor flush, and a straight if villain had 75. Yet the villain checks once more. I don't put him at all on a flush, and he would most likely bet if his draw hit, or if he for some reason was slowplaying a strong hand this whole time. Since I actually have some marginal showdown value with my small pair, I gave thought to checking back, since I beat all of his non-pair draws. But it would really suck if had Jx or 6x or 99 and was getting sticky with them. Plus, I believed I could credibly represent a wide range of strong hands with a line of betting all three streets, that any medium strength hand of his couldn't call.
The key, I believe, is that the villain was a thinking player. It's difficult to represent a hand, or range of hands, if a villain isn't thinking about your cards in the first place.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Yeah I was finishing up but I never have chat on. I did turn it on after I saw you (as I was thinking about stealing your bb from the sb) and said hello, but it was probably 5 hands after you said anything. Chat tilts me as so many people just want to talk about how horrible I am.
Z
ZCorky
Enthusiast
Silver Level
poker stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
BB: $2.44
UTG: $2.56
MP: $3.44
Hero (CO): $4.30
BTN: $0.96
SB: $2.00
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with 8:spade: 7:heart:
1 fold, MP calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.08, MP calls $0.08
Flop: ($0.31) K:diamond: K:club: Q:diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB folds, MP calls $0.24
Turn: ($0.79) 4:club: (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.58, MP calls $0.58
River: ($1.95) T:heart: (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.14, MP folds
Villain was very loose passive 35/0/1 over some 50 hands. The bet on the river was based on a couple of things:-
We were very deep.
No King was checking on the river.
No queen was calling down into a 200BB pot.
Villain had a relatively low WTSD (20%) for his looseness, and I figured he was folding at least 50% of the river.
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
BB: $2.44
UTG: $2.56
MP: $3.44
Hero (CO): $4.30
BTN: $0.96
SB: $2.00
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with 8:spade: 7:heart:
1 fold, MP calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.08, MP calls $0.08
Flop: ($0.31) K:diamond: K:club: Q:diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB folds, MP calls $0.24
Turn: ($0.79) 4:club: (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.58, MP calls $0.58
River: ($1.95) T:heart: (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.14, MP folds
Villain was very loose passive 35/0/1 over some 50 hands. The bet on the river was based on a couple of things:-
We were very deep.
No King was checking on the river.
No queen was calling down into a 200BB pot.
Villain had a relatively low WTSD (20%) for his looseness, and I figured he was folding at least 50% of the river.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
I like it. Just bet until they fold.