What I've noticed in different stakes of cash games

[canbora]

I'm sure a lot of people have many questions about different stakes. I can only speak up to 100NL in online play, live is totally differnet. But I'll say this. Its 9/10ths the same game each time you move up a stake level, just one small variance.

But on over all, the difference is time to make your decisions. When you go higher, people go slower, and for different reasons. Also, you'll see the same "bonehead" plays for different reasons. At higher stakes villains will make the call with pocket 5's because he knows your GTO range and play and knows 55's are good against your AQ that didn't hit. At low stakes they call with 5's..because... who the heck knows why they do these things.

Its all sort of the same, yet not. And really, who knows why they do these things. All that we know is they happen.

Overall, I think at low stakes you need to steal alot. and unless you have a monster or nuts, you dont get involved with full stacks out of nowhere. Like if the pot is 5-10bb... you dont get involved for the remaining 90. At higher stakes... its more preflop, then making your decision AT the flop to continue or not.

Oh, people at higher stakes at 50 or above, certianly at 100... have run it twice enabled. at 25, its possibly, but more than likely not. at 10 and below, its near never.

(this goes for MTT's too. up to $30 buy in, its noob-ish rec territory. $50 starts serious players, $100 buy in, definitely is.)

 

[dreamer13]

Playing cash poker requires developing and implementing a variety of strategies to remain a profitable player over the long term.Analyze the playing style of each opponent. Determine whether he is an aggressive, passive, tourney or raiser.Cheat, change your playing style and don't be predictable in your actions. For your chosen strategy to work, it is important to adapt it and approach poker wisely.Constantly learn new strategies and tactics, and learn from your mistakes to improve. Remember that cash poker is a form of poker where skill and decision making are critical to success.The big stack strategy in cash poker involves a significant amount of chips in your personal pot before the hand begins. You can use your stack to put pressure on your opponents and maximize profits.

 

[canbora]

Yeah.. its definitely challenging, in multiple ways for sure. What I find challenging is the pure volume of hands, which increases odds. Which can be both good and bad.

 

[SrMartis]

Interesting... At the beginning of this year I was wondering about this question, thinking what kind of tecnique or crazy and agressive people are with their bets or bluffs and how good or deep we need to dive in the game to keep up in winning the game in the long run. Thanks for sharing.

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

play tight is right, people are bad in every level anyway.

 

[Station_Master]

play tight is right, people are bad in every level anyway.

Couldn't be more wrong. As you move up players get better, yes there are still some fish but the regs get better and there are fewer fish. Observant players will steal from you relentlessly.

 

[canbora]

Interesting... At the beginning of this year I was wondering about this question, thinking what kind of tecnique or crazy and agressive people are with their bets or bluffs and how good or deep we need to dive in the game to keep up in winning the game in the long run. Thanks for sharing.

You're more than welcome. I was hoping to answer some questions for some folks at lower levels because I see them asking these sorts of things all the time.

And in commonality, as opposed to differences.... you'll still see HORRIBLE players too. Man, I was in 100NL a few weeks ago. There was one player who gave their entire stack away slowly multiple times to just horrid plays.

I seem to like 50NL the best. Its not for a ridiculous amount of money but the play is good and its popular, so you always get action. Its a good middle ground. Same with 25NL.

Thats another thing, it seems on most sites the 25NL and most especially the 50NL are the two most popular stakes. They have the most tables and the most action.

And the same goes for MTT's. I'll buy in up to $30 with my own money, I've done $50's and $100s through satelites. But I've only done a few. I can tell you up to $30 people still do super bone head stuff. Especially if its a PKO and most especially if its a turbo. When you get to 50/100. Like I said, People slow down, the raises get smaller. Like 2x, 2.1x 2.2x, I even saw someone do 2.05x raises. At lower stakes, people are just nuts. Like standard open raise will be 7x for ...maybe 20 minutes becuase ...........who knows why, boredome??? ........then it goes back to normal. Or the random All In, for no reason.

Again, theres always one somewhere that will do that, but its far less common. People go slower with their decisions. If someone in lower stakes senses weakness they just bet to push you out. At higher stakes, people know you trap, so they slow down. I mean, i could go on forever at all these little things I've noticed.

So in conclusion its one of those its the same but different -type things. Its the same game and same rules, and its MOSTLY the same, just a bunch of small subtle differences. Like you wont instantly lose all your money like a magic trick when you sit down. If you play decent and dont do anything stupid, you'll be fine for the most part. You're money doesnt just disappear like their wizards. But what does happen is at a 6 max table on average theres 4 regs and 2 fish. The 2 fish slowly get blead to feed the four regs. I've seen this countless times. Its easy to spot who the fish are when you sit down. And if you cant,...then its you lol.

Its like that game ''which one of these things is not like the others?''

 

[SrMartis]

I see your point, so there's bad players everywhere and people doing crazy sh*** bleeding money out.

I've made my entire poker carrer playing at N2 because I wondered how good I need to bet to beat up these low stakes. In fact I was beating this limit, but fell fear to move up thinking people was really good up there.

This year I moved up to NL4 and to my surprise I'ts most the same!

And now after your post I fell more confident to move up again when the time come and the bankroll increases.

 

[Huntre]

paishence it's a key... I think every people has his own amount of money that they consider big or small, that's way we see same patterns on each table lvl.

 

[canbora]

I see your point, so there's bad players everywhere and people doing crazy sh*** bleeding money out.

I've made my entire poker carrer playing at N2 because I wondered how good I need to bet to beat up these low stakes. In fact I was beating this limit, but fell fear to move up thinking people was really good up there.

This year I moved up to NL4 and to my surprise I'ts most the same!

And now after your post I fell more confident to move up again when the time come and the bankroll increases.

Right and as you can imagine, two neighboring stakes are going to be similar. 2 and 4 will have more in common than 2 and 10, as you can imagine. And also, the those are the two lowest stakes you can play. So they are going to have the "worst" play. Even if better players going in there, becuase its not worth anything they'll just do wild stuff just to screw around. I watched a Brad Owen clip on youtube where he played against Phil ivey at $500 table because they were mixng up pros with regular folks and phil ivey didnt seem like he even gave a flip. He re raised brad all in with Jacks. Premium hand, not wrong........buuuut, phil is the master of big lay downs. Do you think he'd do that at his normal stakes...whatever in the world they may be? NL1million? lol

paishence it's a key... I think every people has his own amount of money that they consider big or small, that's way we see same patterns on each table lvl.

Exactly. There are a lot of people out there with good salaries. To them, why would they sit down at a 2NL?

And combing you both together here. ... again, I would NEVER tell someone where they should and shouldnt play. Thats up to you! And as we just said, money is relative. Howver, mixing all of humanity together and coming up with a suppper basic average. its my opinion............again, ,my opinion........... what a person should do, is start out a bit higher up. I wouldn't even mess with NL2 , NL5. Absolutely minimum NL10. Like....what is 10 bucks? You don't even need to be bankrolling yourself at this point. Just deposit money as you need it. If you win, keep going.

Now, sit down money is a different story. You should always have at minimum of two full buy ins of sit down money. Don't play cash games short stacked. Unless you're doing a short stack stratgey on purpose. Not advised but it can work, I've done it. But what the main point is, say you're doing a 40bb/50bb short stack stratgey. You go in with that as your plan and you keep yourself topped off at 40bb. The main thing is, don't let yourself get dwindled down to 25 or something. At this point what you're doing really isnt making much sense (in most cases) and what are you hoping to accomplish? You're just all over the place. But again, regardless...sit down with a few buy ins.

But back to it... really. I'd be starting off at 25Nl to 50NL. I FULLY get if thats too much money to lose. I 1000% get it. But the reason I say this ... is say you wanted to start playing in a casino. You're not going to find anything less than NL200. Most of the time its NL300 or 400. Do you have 10 grand in your roll to do this? Does the majority of people playing these tables.? Ill bet overwhelming majority do not. And also NL25 and NL50 (online) have the most action so you're more to find a better game. And believe me, they people there arn't that great. In my opinion they aren't. 4 out of 6 people are TAGs. TAGs are predictable. if you're predictable, you're not so great. I've made some MAJOR bluffs against some tags at both NL50 and NL100 because they were playing obvious ABC poker.

But yeah, Id save a few paychecks, sell soemthing around the house you dont need on ebay...whatever. Roll yourself for NL25 and go to town. Again, if thats too much, then fine, NL10. But I wouldnt go any lower. And I would be "punching up" to 25 and 50 every now and then to dabble in the waters. Sit down at the NL25 table with a half stack. Thats 12 bucks. you can do that. Thats doable.

*also (changing subject) By the numbers, people at cash games are "better" than tourney players. More people gravitate to cash poker, Meaning, even the people are Nl10, aren't bad. As in, not as bad as the play at a $10 MTT buy in. Not even close. There is some serious boneheadery at a $10 buy in MTT.

And by better I mean most people are TAGs and nits. Those are the two most common players. I think they think they're "good" and playing "proper" but and maybe they are according to math/computer/solver. But its not "poker". Because GTO also knows you're not suppose to fold more than..what is it? 40% of hands? so.. how can both things be? Well.. use your head. Cards dont have to be suited. Suited is better FOR SURE, but really its only a few percent. KJ is still KJ. Suited KJ is just a little better. Thats why a lot of times a solver will have you fold A3 suited to certain bets, becuase its just A3 still. Its a semi rag. If you're playing 3 handed and you're on the button with 9 10 offsuit, thats a raise my friend. I dont care what the solver says.


Like I said, I could go on all day with this stuff as you can see. I've made many observations and I remember a great deal of them trying to better my own play. I hope I'm getting there. lol. one day......one day.

 

[canbora]

I'm going to add to this. Almost like a blog style.


So... I've been giving myself a bit of an overall break-ish from poker to take of other important things. Poker eats up a lot of time. But because I love the game, i'll play any game at any stakes, even pennies....if I haven't played in a while just to play.

So, I've dropped down from my normal cash stakes and MTT buy ins to the lower micros. $10 MTTs and $2NL up to $10NL and all in between. (all of this is for experimentation purposes. I say this because of the comment I make later about staying static at your stake level)

1. Such a shift from the upper micros like $25NL. Everyone is in. You have to make BIG raises to get people to fold which throws off the math to a lot of things. And you have to watch All ins because they are inducing becuase it closes the action. As a result.. I dont care what GTO says, hands like 88's and 99's....even 10's and JJ's lose value extremely. I'd recommend just calling with these hands and seeing where it goes from there. If you raise you're going to get called. More than likely you will not improve and someone will have high cards and they will pair. And if they dont someone with have a midling hand and hit a straight or set etc. I haven't done the math on this, maybe your chances of hitting a set will come ahead if you can get value.......IF. I dont know. I found that I do sometimes get value, but not max value. More often than not I get a fold or a small pot. So the jurry's still out on this. But be mindful of your actions. Dont be a robot. Its minus EV

2. I'd also recommend not even bothering with lower mid pairs and small pairs. (Im talking at low micros with always 4-5 people to a flop) You're beat. Unless your closing action and you feel you can get away with seeing a flop with a lot of odds.........yeah of course call. But if you're middling position with 6's. I mean. maybe fold. You can call and see if you get raised and you can make your decision.

Thats another thing. I wouldn't so much focus on worrying about your opponents observing you or taking advantage of your "bad play" by limping SOMETIMES with small pairs and such. Most of these people are just clicking buttons anyway. Do what you have to do.

3. Another thing is ....and this is for all stakes I've played. A lot of people overall are passive. If someone reshoves on you at the river. And you don't have the nuts or a super monster like second nuts..........you're probably beat. If I'm being honest.. I think every single time this has happened to me in recent history I had the losing hand, despite the fact I had the best hand up until the river. I feel this is a leak in my game and from hear out...it is now patched. I couldnt fathom the math on that, but thats what has been happening. Any other combo like bluffs with bets, sure. Ive made hero calls. But if they check and I value bet and they shove or reraise or anything like that at all.... I was beat. Every single time. I'm not saying you shouuld lay it down EVERYTIME... but its something to keep in mind.

4. I performed a lot of experiments with AK and AK suited preflop. Playing it like GTO says (basically being in the top 4 best hands) that you should never fold and its always raise, reraise, call, all in. Yeah. Its true. You have people saying its a drawing hand etc. But, my results show that you have to be the aggressor. You need to take the play out of it. So you either additionally have fold equity, or they call and the action is closed. It dominates any two unpaired cards. And it has a strong chance over every pair up to and including QQ. Even KK is in trouble. The only hand that dominates it totally is AA. And thats only one hand, you just have to accept that thats poker. And even then, you have a slight chance. Especially suited.

5. Which leads me to number five. Suited hands are great. They are better............but they aren't magic. Its not THAT much difference. The same applies in opposite. If its 4 handed and you are on the button with 10 9 offsuit. Thats a raise. Like Brad owns says, if borderline spots its "ok" to pretend its suited to see what you were do and judge from there. KQ suited is awesome, but A2 offsuit beats it. A3 suited is great.....but against a reraise its still just A3. You have to fold that.

6. And building again from the previous.... a flush is a big hand and its rare. You don't hit it often, so dont be counting to do so with your suited cards, Dont call with suited trash. As vince van patton says...suited trash is still trash. And if do get a flush with your 10 8 suited. You more than likely have the best hand. Its rare to have a higher flush. People always fear this. The fact that you have the flush is a blocker in and of itself. Does it happen? of course. Just saw it last night classic K high flush vs A high. Its a cooler folks, Its poker.

7. If you're going to be serious about cash games long term ITS MY OPINION you need to pick a stake level and STAY THERE dont bounce around. This is opinion. I didnt long term figure this. I say this because swings are natural math. Its totally possible for your swings to cary over to when your at these different levels and work against you. Like a downswing at higher stakes and it comes back positive when you're at lowers. Now you're massively behind. I'm sure theres ways around this. I'm just saying, keep this in mind. Stay at your stakes!!

8. Be mindful of your table and the play, adjust to combat each player and the table. Don't be one way, adapt and also mix it up. Dont assume every game and villian is the same. Be zen, be the table, be the game!! hahha

9. Keep yourself fresh! If you're tired, LEAVE. Do smaller sessions at a time. Like an hour or 100 hands. Get up, leave the table. Rest, watch TV, eat a snack. Leave for a while, leave hours even. Come back later. I find I make the most mistakes for MANY reasons, not just one...when I'm at a cash table for too long.

10: You do you boo......but........enable run it twice. Its funner and after all poker is a gentlemans game. be fair, be sporting, considerate, and be friendly to your fellow players at the table. In all respects, not just that.