*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

[duggs]

then why aren't you betting the turn? assuming villain will value bet thinly for you is pretty optimistic.

 

[vinylspiros]

then why aren't you betting the turn? assuming villain will value bet thinly for you is pretty optimistic.

Because i i bet turn and he doesnt have the king he is going to fold like99% of the time. It is my main goal in this hand to allow all cards to come off so that he can make the best hand possible . And i can always overbet river or whatever. Just seems to dry to be getting value. So i decide to show weakness all the way to river and try and get whatever i can get there( after all five cards have opened)

 

[vinylspiros]

Only problem with the line im describing is that pot might be too small on river for me to get maximum value without overbetting thats why i chose the chek raise line. I figure its the only way to get the most.

 

[duggs]

my default line would be bet/bet/bet

 

[vinylspiros]

my default line would be bet/bet/bet

I hear ya man. Makes sense. Just went through a slightly different thought process in this one. Thnks for tips though. I get what your saying.

 

[Blobweird123]

Vin, when villain has 9x on that board, he's not auto-folding to a turn cbet as long as its not like psb or larger lol. If I have 9x in villains spot, im calling one more street usually. As duggs said, bet bet bet.

And like if you're gonna bet 66 hand, then why not 33 hand? Sure 9x is a bit more prominent in his range, but not enough to argue doing it in the one hand and not in the other imo.

 

[vinylspiros]

I dont know man. Dont know why i followed different lines in identical hands. I am 4 tabling rush so some of my decisions are obviously not always optimal. Probably just assigned different ranges to villains ehile in game or something. Not sure. Will be bet bet betting if similar spots arise though. Thnks blob and duggs for your guy's help. I really do take your opinions into mind and try to sink in all the info so that i can get better .

 

[long_bong]

Decisions become almost automatic when 4 tabling rush lol, do you always just play rush V?

 

[duggs]

Well then cut down on your tables, if you aren't thinking about what you are doing you won't improve

 

[stately7]

Hey Vinyl, hope you don't me posting this hand here - given its $10NL rush.

I'm working on my obet/jamming in spots, and wonder if I could have played this better / different? Re my stack, I dunno if this is really bad, but lately I've been buying in at 80% (80BB) with auto-top up on to 80BB. Seems to save roll as I generally get to above 100BB pretty quickly.


Hand Information
full tilt poker , 0.1 BB (6 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($44.85)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($39.19)
Seat: 3 Hero ($8.73)
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($18.46) Dealer
Seat: 5 Player 5 ($10.24) Small Blind
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($18.86) Big Blind
Dealt to Hero

*

*

Preflop (Pot:0.15)
Player 1****CALL $0.1
Player 2****FOLD
Hero****CALL $0.1
Player 4****CALL $0.1
Player 5****FOLD
Player 6****CHECK

Flop(Pot: $0.45)

*

*

*

Player 6****CHECK
Player 1****CHECK
Hero****CHECK
Player 4****CHECK

Turn(Pot: $0.45)

*

*

*

*

Player 6****BET $0.22
Player 1****CALL $0.22
Hero****CALL $0.22
Player 4****FOLD

River(Pot: $1.11)

*

*

*

*

*

Player 6****CHECK
Player 1****CHECK
Hero****BET $1.7
Player 6****CALL $1.7
Player 1****CALL $1.7
Showdown:
Hero SHOWS

*

*
Player 6 MUCKS

*

*
Player 1 MUCKS

*

*
Hero**wins the pot: $6.21

 

[Blobweird123]

Well then cut down on your tables, if you aren't thinking about what you are doing you won't improve

I think this could yield a sick improvement actually. 4tabling rush isn't very easy to do when we are trying to take optimal lines vs specific villain types and so forth. If you cut down to 2, I think you will see soooo much more progress in your hand reading abilities/betting lines/sizing etc. And of course once you get to a new level of thinking you can always throw up a third table and go from there. If you feel you're starting to lapse again, drop the 3rd. If you grind 3 for a while and really feel you're starting to make auto decisions that are correct quickly, add in the 4th. Just something to think about.

 

[Blobweird123]

Hey Vinyl, hope you don't me posting this hand here - given its $10NL rush.

I'm working on my obet/jamming in spots, and wonder if I could have played this better / different? Re my stack, I dunno if this is really bad, but lately I've been buying in at 80% (80BB) with auto-top up on to 80BB. Seems to save roll as I generally get to above 100BB pretty quickly.

Wanted to quote you so you know i'm addressing you, but didn't want the wall of HH again lol. Anyway, why aren't we raising turn here? If we get folds, so be it. But more often than not we will get at least one caller and will make for a bigger value bet on the river. Like we can raise turn and still overbet river and get calls. Except the difference being our overbet is that much bigger now.

Also if you feel comfortable playing 100bb, which it seems you do since you said you get to above 100bb (and I assume you don't just leave?) then just play 100bb buyin. Playing 80bb can force you into wrong decisions though it might not seem like it. Those hands where you make it to the river and villain shoves but you only have 30bbs behind instead of 50 might get you to call off when you shouldn't. Random and vague but you get the point. And for the obvious reason that when we have a winning hand and stack off, we make more.

 

[Blobweird123]

this maths is clearly not true, pot odds never offer us worse than 1:1 so the limit on equity required to call is 50%. where do you get 70% from?

My post says 42%, stop making stuff up

Nah jk you straightened out my horrible maths, thanks duggs

Edit: btw, best thread on CC for a bit now imo, keep it up Vinyl!

 

[stately7]

Wanted to quote you so you know i'm addressing you, but didn't want the wall of HH again lol. Anyway, why aren't we raising turn here? If we get folds, so be it. But more often than not we will get at least one caller and will make for a bigger value bet on the river. Like we can raise turn and still overbet river and get calls. Except the difference being our overbet is that much bigger now.

Also if you feel comfortable playing 100bb, which it seems you do since you said you get to above 100bb (and I assume you don't just leave?) then just play 100bb buyin. Playing 80bb can force you into wrong decisions though it might not seem like it. Those hands where you make it to the river and villain shoves but you only have 30bbs behind instead of 50 might get you to call off when you shouldn't. Random and vague but you get the point. And for the obvious reason that when we have a winning hand and stack off, we make more.

Thank you Blobweird, makes sense re betting turn to build pot. The fact of board being full rainbow had a lot to do with it, I'd insta-raise turn with two of a suit showing. Quite strange how passive both villains were on this hand tbh. You're right, would have almost certainly been called here, but over-betting river may then have proved less fruitful in this light due to me showing strength ott right? Strange hand in a way. Previously as a relative noob I've leant toward value betting river with nuts or close to it, as opposed to overbetting, but CC members have inspired me to do it more, and it looks more bluffy which i love.

Cheers for advice on 100BB with auto-top up as opposed to 80BB. Yeah see what you mean re tripping up on decisions. No, not short-stacking! I really like getting deep and playing for a while with 200BB+, it's a whole new ball game then. Although then getting into tricky spots with other 200BB+ villains is not so fantastic, lol.

EDIT: actually another good reason to raise turn is wtf am I going to do if river pairs board? So again, agree Blob!

 

[Blobweird123]

Thank you Blobweird, makes sense re betting turn to build pot. The fact of board being full rainbow had a lot to do with it, I'd insta-raise turn with two of a suit showing. Quite strange how passive both villains were on this hand tbh. You're right, would have almost certainly been called here, but over-betting river may then have proved less fruitful in this light due to me showing strength ott right? Strange hand in a way. Previously as a relative noob I've leant toward value betting river with nuts or close to it, as opposed to overbetting, but CC members have inspired me to do it more, and it looks more bluffy which i love.

Cheers for advice on 100BB with auto-top up as opposed to 80BB. Yeah see what you mean re tripping up on decisions. No, not short-stacking! I really like getting deep and playing for a while with 200BB+, it's a whole new ball game then. Although then getting into tricky spots with other 200BB+ villains is not so fantastic, lol.

EDIT: actually another good reason to raise turn is wtf am I going to do if river pairs board? So again, agree Blob!

Meh its 10nl and villains hate folding top pair and worse 2pr. Plus we get value from Jx/Tx ott because youd be surprised how much theyll call gutters here multiway thinking they have implied odds.

 

[vinylspiros]

Decisions become almost automatic when 4 tabling rush lol, do you always just play rush V?

Yea man, always and ONLY. I have tried firing up normal speed six max tables plenty of times. Minimum i can play of those is 6 but they are slower than slow. I couldnt keep them running for more than 5 minutes.

I think that if they ever stop rush/zoom poker, that im giving up on poker forever because i dont have the patience to do normal speed anymore.

Well then cut down on your tables, if you aren't thinking about what you are doing you won't improve

true. But tbh i dont really think there is too much of a difference.. If anything playing more tables helps me not to force the action which is kind of a big thing for me.



thnks fellas.

 

[vinylspiros]

My post says 42%, stop making stuff up

Nah jk you straightened out my horrible maths, thanks duggs

Edit: btw, best thread on CC for a bit now imo, keep it up Vinyl!

Im glad the thread is going well and im glad some people are able to get anything out of this because i sure am. Problem is that my progress has become stagnant and am stuck at 300-350.


10NL has proven to be harder than i thought. Not giving up or anything and will obviously keep grinding it out. Just that long BE stretches do take their toll on confidence. Oh well, volume is my friend.

 

[vinylspiros]

Hey Vinyl, hope you don't me posting this hand here - given its $10NL rush.

I'm working on my obet/jamming in spots, and wonder if I could have played this better / different? Re my stack, I dunno if this is really bad, but lately I've been buying in at 80% (80BB) with auto-top up on to 80BB. Seems to save roll as I generally get to above 100BB pretty quickly.

Raiseturn all day long because there are so many hands that will definitely be willing to call on this runnout and also there are a gazillion cards that will kill be action killers on the river.

 

[vinylspiros]

Please take a moment to see what kind of players you can find at 10NL and please explain to me why im not beating it for 50BB/100.

Did i maybe overplay the AQ? perhaps yea,but can you blame me?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Hero (CO) ($14.12)
Button ($10)
SB ($3.63)
BB ($14.86)
UTG ($10.63)
MP ($5.90)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, Q

UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.30, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($1) Q

, J

, 3

(3 players)
SB bets $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.53, SB calls $1.23

Turn: ($4.06) 9

(2 players)
SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $5, SB calls $1.50 (All-In)

River: ($7.66) K

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $7.66 | Rake: $0.38

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had 8

, J

(one pair, Jacks).
Hero had A

, Q

(one pair, Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $7.28

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

SB ($13.03)
BB ($12.72)
UTG ($10)
Hero (MP) ($11.01)
CO ($11.15)
Button ($3.38)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, Q

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, Button calls $0.35, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.85) 5

, Q

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.65, Button calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.15) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.65, Button calls $1.65

River: ($5.45) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $5.50, Button calls $0.73 (All-In)

Total pot: $6.91 | Rake: $0.34

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had 4

, A

(one pair, fives).
Hero had A

, Q

(two pair, Queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero won $6.57

 

[RamdeeBen]

nh's, don't understand why you're limping behind the UTG limp though in the first AQ hand.

 

[vinylspiros]

Check out this line here. Sent him back to kindergarden.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

UTG ($11.83)
MP ($11.18)
Hero (CO) ($13.56)
Button ($3.54)
SB ($3.80)
BB ($10.43)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

UTG raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.55

Flop: ($2.40) 10

, 5

, 9

(3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($2.40) 5

(3 players)
UTG bets $0.60, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.90

River: ($5.40) 5

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5.45, UTG calls $5.45

Total pot: $16.30 | Rake: $0.81

Results below:

Spoiler

UTG had J

, 10

(full house, fives over tens).
Hero had K

, K

(full house, fives over Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $15.49

 

[vinylspiros]

Reason i dont Cbet flop in KK hand is because button is a short stacker and im like 99% sure he is going to shove anything esp since me and UTG checked it around so by me not Cbetting and button shoving, i figure i can get UTG to come along for the ride.( since he will probably call with anything thinking i have AK or something because i didnt cbet)

 

[vinylspiros]

Flatting monsters pre versus shortstackers to try to get max value.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Hero (SB) ($10.20)
BB ($3.80)
UTG ($10)
MP ($10.05)
CO ($1.96)
Button ($5)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, A

2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15 (BB is a short stacker so i as hoping he would shove)

Flop: ($0.75) K

, 6

, J

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.08, BB calls $1.08, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.11) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.14, BB calls $2.47 (All-In)

River: ($8.05) Q

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.05 | Rake: $0.40

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero had A

, A

(one pair, Aces).
BB had 10

, K

(one pair, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $7.65

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($12.99)
MP ($3.55)
CO ($10)
Button ($23.44)
SB ($3.89)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, K

3 folds, Button raises to $0.30, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold (button looked fishy so i figured i can try to drag him along as well)

Flop: ($2.30) 4

, 7

, 2

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.45, SB calls $0.45

Turn: ($3.20) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2.44 (All-In)

River: ($8.08) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.08 | Rake: $0.40

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had A

, 10

(one pair, fours).
Hero had K

, K

(two pair, Kings and fours).
Outcome: Hero won $7.68

 

[vinylspiros]

Remember when i posted the hand where i hit top set and called it rigged cause villain hit runner runner for a straight? I guess what goes around comes around.
well i take it back.

Villains stats: 35/34/ 3 with a 30% 3bet over 85 hands. (hence the play)


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

CO ($23.30)
Button ($10.05)
SB ($11.27)
BB ($14.22)
UTG ($10.60)
Hero (MP) ($10.47)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8

, 8

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, SB raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.10) 6

, 7

, 2

(2 players)
SB bets $1.47, Hero raises to $9.47 (All-In), SB calls $8 ( i feel like there is a high chance tha i am ahead and i dont want to see any aces or kings or queens on the turn so i guess ,taking into consideration this guys stats that i am willing t GII right here and i honestly think i could get called off by FD's and all AK's) is this spewy or does my reasoning make sense?

Turn: ($21.04) 5

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($21.04) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $21.04 | Rake: $1.05

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had Q

, Q

(one pair, Queens).
Hero had 8

, 8

(straight, eight high).
Outcome: Hero won $19.99

 

[Blobweird123]

Vinyl.......

Stop flatting huge hands pre like this and stop checking flops with big hands like the KK on T9x.

KK when you flat pre is just wrong. Why on earth do you want it to go possibly 4way to the flop? It's just a pair. It does NOT play incredibly well in MW pots. I know you wanna get "tricky" all the time but these are the types of things that will keep your bankroll around where it is. Get the money in!

And 88 hand. What does his 30% 3bet actually look like over 85 hands? 3/10? If so, I'm not convinced here. I dunno man. I mean I don't hate your call pre, but I wish we were deeper for this. On the flop, it's hard to say since we do have an overpair but I'm not one for raising there. I'd rather flat and see what he does on the turn. If he barrels big again, I toss the hand no problem. But I def don't jam the flop and let him play pretty perfect since he's just not gonna fold better ever. 66+ is snapping more than likely. Ugh just don't like it.