Twoturntablez Attempt at beating 2nl

twoturntablez

twoturntablez

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OK here goes
 

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dooydoo

dooydoo

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You have a great winrate so far. And in case youre wondering its normal and ok to lose in the blinds. Just as long as youre not losing too much. Heres its very good.

Increase your uo pfr by a significant amount on the btn and sb. Just literally open raise 100% of sb unless the bb is a loose calling station type and then adjust from there. Dont start opening up a few more hands, open up every hand and im sure youll be surprised at how successful it is. I open 100% vs nits, unkowns, regs, basically anyone besides loose passives or laggy/maniacs which shouldnt be in my bb anyways. Doing that will increase your steal % as well.

Increase your raise limper % by widening your value iso range as stated previously.

Your turn cbet is very high. If you look at your success% on the turn it should be quite low at around 35%. This means that if the villain calls the flop, he is calling the turn 65% of the time so you better not be bluffing. Since you have a tight pfr i imagine you are betting for value a lot of the times but its still quite high. Mine for 6max is around 45%. Im not sure how much that stat should differ from 6max to 9max. This could be a major money bleeding spot so take a look at it.

Notice your steal success in the sb is 70%. You are stealing with 28% of hands. Do you think you will be just as successful stealing with 50%? So in theory if you make it 3x 100% of the time you will be just as successful but you will be making so much more money not to mention your cbet on the flop if called will take it down a lot too. No one at this stake will notice you steal more or less. All they see are their cards and the community cards.

Same goes for btn.

Keep going, youre doing great but what will happen is when you get to higher limits where players are better you will hit a wall and be losing/break even and not know why. These adjustments and others to follow will help you keep winning and prepare you for when you move up.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

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Thanks Dooy, really helpful.

I will try, I will try, I will try. If I start getting calls and raises then I reevaluate.

Turn cbet succes % is 26.9 overall.

Current winrate inflated by a total spazz I found, he rivered me on one hand that was just awful. I bought in for $5 because he had $10 and left with all of it. AQ on Q77 flop allin and AQ on AQx flop all in against K2 ffs. I nearly kacked myself when he picked up a flush draw on the turn.

Ive been break even for years so I know all about that! And Im getting no delusions of grandeur, I realise im just an unlucky streak away from losing 5 buyins and have heaps more questions for you but one thing at a time eh?

I do have one for you though that I think is in keeping with this concept of Isoing and cutoff/btn raising......

Can we take a scenario where we've been happily stealing for a few rounds then somebody wises up and 3bets back.

With what hands are you calling a 3bet from by sb or bb, lets say we make it 8c in an unopened pot in the CO/BTN, and the 10/10 sb makes it 24c, with which hands do we call? Do you have some standard ish 3bet floating range? Which hands might you be tempted to 4bet?

Notice your steal success in the sb is 70%. You are stealing with 28% of hands. Do you think you will be just as successful stealing with 50%? So in theory if you make it 3x 100% of the time you will be just as successful but you will be making so much more money not to mention your cbet on the flop if called will take it down a lot too. No one at this stake will notice you steal more or less. All they see are their cards and the community cards.

Sometimes im a bit slow, can you elaborate here please. Are you suggesting I make a 3xbb raise from the cutoff/button 100% of the time it is unopened?

What size will I make my "go away please" cbet? (If I raised 3xbb 100% of unopened pots)?
I think Im making it 4x preflop especially if Im simply stealing with the lower end of the steal range. If Im on the button and I want a call with KK/AA I'll make it 3x approx half the time and 4x the other. With JJ and QQ I randomly choose something between 3x and 6x.

Gonna scan the forum for a bit and get ready for a sesh later tonight.

Cheers buddies.
 
micromachine

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Can we take a scenario where we've been happily stealing for a few rounds then somebody wises up and 3bets back.

With what hands are you calling a 3bet from by sb or bb, lets say we make it 8c in an unopened pot in the CO/BTN, and the 10/10 sb makes it 24c, with which hands do we call? Do you have some standard ish 3bet floating range? Which hands might you be tempted to 4bet?

Take care not to assume that they are 3betting in response to your steals and call their 3bet light, if they have a 2% 3bet stat for example it's more than likely that they actually do have a hand. If you have 3 successful steals then have to fold one to a 3bet, your steals are still profitable.

Which hands to call 3bets with in position will depend on what the villains 3bet range is.

If stacks are deep, or in multiway 3bet pots you can profitably start calling to setmine, using the 20x rule as a guideline.

Probably best to 4bet only premiums at 2nl, unless up against maniac 3bettors.
 
dooydoo

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Ya by default fold to their 3b unless you have odds/implied odds to see a flop with a pp or even if youre really deep you can call with suited connectors. Just dont get carried away postflop.

Steal 100% from the btn and sb by default until proven otherwise. If you get 3b, keep stealing 100% until they are totally obviously adjusting. Most of the time the wind up with a big hand and 3b, not because they think youre stealing and need to 'keep you honest'.

My open size is 4x if i have a value hand or expect to get called by a lot worse by a loose player or if i expect to get a lot of folds to my cbet. If they villain is a solid aggressive player who can 3b a lot i might make it 3x with my more marginal hands and still 4x for value. Your cbet value size should be near pot by default and half pot as a bluff by default. These 2 bet sizes have the same amount of fold equity and accomplish everything you need to do.

Mathematically if you cbet half pot as a bluff you have to get folds 33% of the time to break even. You will be getting folds much more than that so regardless of anything else but math, you are making money.

If your turn cbet is 70ish% and your success is 27% then you have to be bleeding money unless you somehow have had a lot of strong hands in this sample. They are only folding 27% to your turn cbet so stop bluffing there if you are. Only turn cbet bluff if you have a great draw like overs + fd or another hand with lots of outs. You can also bluff offsuit overcards like on the board of T72K. The K is a great scare card.
 
acky100

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By default fold to 3bets unless you have a really solid hand, dont bother calling with small-mid pocket pairs or suited connectors! Just don't do it,i can guarantee you will just lose money doing that, people don't 3bet bluff very much at your limit, also, if you never called a 3bet OOP it wouldn't be terrible either.
 
twoturntablez

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OK, definitely opening wider and more often. And yes I guess Im still on a heater.
The turn cbet is going through the roof. I will session review and find hands I lost when I thought I was good and betting the turn. I guess Im not separating agression Preflop and post flop, just going mental once called. So if turn bet success is the amount of time I get folds, the remaining % I either need the best hand or Im losing money?
 

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dooydoo

dooydoo

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Turn cb success % is the number of times you cb the turn after cbetting the flop and getting folds. It has nothing to do with your hand strength.

Yours was 27% so 27% they are folding, 73% of the time they are calling you. So you want to have a good hand or the turn to be a perfect bluff card for you to fire, otherwise you are wasting money on a bluff thats only going to work 27% of the time
 
twoturntablez

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Ok I will reveiw. Im pretty sure I give up after the flop cbet if Im not feeling good about my hand and will bear this in mind about 3bets and turn bets for tonights session thanks.
 
twoturntablez

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Man what an awful session last night 4 buyins down. Going through the hands I was unlucky for 200bb and played bad for the rest. During the day I thought Id played even worse than I had, no excuses, need to knuckle down and find the fold button in the right spots. No more than 6 tables until 4 buyins recovered. Self exclusion for tonight and worked an hour extra as punishment lol. Hand review and some time scanning strategy and rereading Isolating limpers. Having problems with the aggression preflop and not giving up/giving credit to villains post flop. Maybe if my steals are getting called and the cbet doesnt work I should change tables after a couple of events of giving up to later bets. It was like some players wanted to get in pots I raised to take me off later in the hand.
 
twoturntablez

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Awesome night at the pub tourney, new venue in a league which has a tournament for every night of the week. 12 week season, top 5 from each venue go into finals game with first prize flights to Australia and $1000 buyin tournament and spending money.

New venue in my local town last week so only 3 weeks to play with top 5 going to finals tournament. Not particularly good value to play as $5 goes to prizepool and addon go toward finals so its like $5+$5 but you dont get to win any of the 2nd $5.

Last week got 4th and tonight I won it. Super stoked as I dont think I can fail to be top 5 even if I dont play next week, last week of 12. $50 in the pocket as well. Yeehaa go the finals.

Not so disappointed with the 4 buyin loss at 2nl and am going to give it a shot right now with a 2 buyin stop loss. Wish me luck, its late and Ive had a few......... 6 tables max remember!!!??!?!
 
KerouacsDog

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just subbing.......................but please dont drunkenly PM me.
 
twoturntablez

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Errrr.... Hmmm....Cough cough.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

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Almost 10k update

Been thinking about playing big hands preflop. Read an interesting thread regarding KK preflop and had led me on to thinking about QQ, KK, AA preflop. For a long time I have tried to get AA and KK in preflop pretty much regardless of the action/position/villain. I think I definitely saw AA coming on more than one occasion whikst holding KK. I'm not saying that I'm likely to start folding KK pre. Just thinking about when it is ok to Call 3bet/4bet to keep other hands in. If I have KK and they have AA and its a low rainbow we're both jamming anyways. But might still get called by QQ JJ, hell even AK you just never know at this level. There have been many situations where I'm not getting callers to my raises/4bets with both AA and KK. I have no plan right now but will reread the thread and replay my AA and KK hands to see if I clearly missed value with overlarge 4bets on 3bet preflop hands with 1 caller or somesuch.

Treechoppin time.
 

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JCgrind

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Almost 10k update

Been thinking about playing big hands preflop. Read an interesting thread regarding KK preflop and had led me on to thinking about QQ, KK, AA preflop. For a long time I have tried to get AA and KK in preflop pretty much regardless of the action/position/villain. I think I definitely saw AA coming on more than one occasion whikst holding KK. I'm not saying that I'm likely to start folding KK pre. Just thinking about when it is ok to Call 3bet/4bet to keep other hands in. If I have KK and they have AA and its a low rainbow we're both jamming anyways. But might still get called by QQ JJ, hell even AK you just never know at this level.

claiming credit for this lol. its such a boost in your w/r when you have lightbulb moments like these
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

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claiming credit for this lol. its such a boost in your w/r when you have lightbulb moments like these

Yes you cheeky bugger, it was your wisdom I was reading in another post.

Unfortunately things have not been going well and Ive had 3 losing sessions in a row. Wiped out all winnings and Im back to square one, well, 1.5 buyins down after getting 14 buyins up.

12600 hands winnings -0.94bb/100

Biggest damage has been to pride, was doing so well, then perhaps I let concentration slip, get a bit wider with some hands in the wrong spots.

I feel like my opponents dont respect my preflop position raises. Ive said it before but maybe theres something about my stats that show I'll raise pre then fold to donk bet on flop. In this scenario Im opening say AJ-AK otb for 8c, sb folds bb calls. low rainbow flop. He bets I fold or worse, he bets I float, miss turn and get pot size donk bet, fold. Im still not as aggressive on the cutoff or button as I have been told I should be, but if these situations would continue perhaps the way I'm playing would lead to a larger loss with wider cards.

I have 20 buyins left on stars. Its not so much that the money is important, Ive set my goal and will do my best to rise above 2nl!

Time to take a week off and read more before playing again. Will be the first time in years so Im kind of challenging myself a little. Obviously will think about poker, read about poker and hang around here, just take a little time out from the cash games, got to be a good thing, mebbe I can come back refreshed and ready for action.

Partners screensaver has been changed to "or we could just turn the computer off and live in the real world".

GL on the tablez
 
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Very interesting read. Im in similar place learning and managing to beat 2nl. I hate getting 3 bet and I also find it difficult to fold when I have a big suspicion that they are just doing it light to defend.

Hope you will keep posting and good luck
 
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It is ok to go down 200bb in a day. I had a day playing $50nl where I lost $500 (bad luck followed by bad poker and megatilt). I almost pulled my remaining money out. I took 2 days off, then I won it back, plus more over the next couple of days. You can do the same. Just keep playing a solid TAG style, folding when you are clearly beat and you will be fine.
 
twoturntablez

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Yeah thanks GWU, have been trying to have a week off cash games on stars. So far have not managed to go an evening without some hands. Im almost at the point at which I will stop playing cash games and return to tournaments on stars to try to build the bankroll a little.

On a plus note I came 4th 1st and 7th over the last 3 weeks in my local league. Had to finish top 5 for tomorrows big game with about $1.7k in the prizepool. Finished 1st overall so get an extra $50 yippee but its all about the game tomorrow.

Watch this space!
 
twoturntablez

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Out in 10th, blind increases crippling stacks at the 2k/4k level. By the time I pushed K5diamonds on the button blinds were 3k/6k blinds steal goes wrong and got a call from K10off in the sb.

Then I got a seat at the 20nl cash table next to my lovely lady.

What crazy mofos a bunch of people who just bust from a tournament are. A few hands in I had AK in mid position and utg makes it $1.20, then a reraise to $3. I fold and whisper to my partner I had AK. At the end of the hand I learn the reraise to $3 was with 10 7 spades. King Ten had called and shoved the ten high flop. 10 7s calls.........

Im thinking a tight game is going to work best and its not long before I get two black aces in the big blind, 7 limpers and I make it $5. ZOMG three callers. Q72 rainbow flop I shove and get called by Q8, thankfully no bs and I scoop the $37 pot.

Final few still going in the tourney and we're told to wind it up and cash out, one of our buddies open raises to $8 all in. Lovely lady makes the call with 10 10 up against AK, he flops A, tuns a 10! So, terrible tourney but made some cash afterall!
Got a cute wee trophy for winning my league as well.
 
twoturntablez

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It is with some regret, sadness and shame that this thread comes to a close.

Twoturntablez didnt beat 2nl..... Yet.

I played 13k in 31 hours and made a loss of $4. (after losing the $28 I had managed to win) My cash game isnt good enough. It was a fun foray into cash games, I had been a terrible cash player before I did some reading and armed myself with a few strategies and tips from here and there but almost exclusively HERE. I tightened up from a horrible 20/5 over 25k+ hands to a fairly respectable (you tell me?) 13/10 over the next 13k.

I did have some awful beats but upon review played like shite on a few occasions too.

Im not giving up, I just think its a good time to have a stop, reevaluate and come back again stronger perhaps more confident too. I'd be playing with scared money right now. LOL at 2nl.

Thanks to all you who've given advice I'll do my best again next time and have plenty more questions methinks.

As far as sites go Im really only interested in cash games on stars and have decided to put some of the last few pennies on stars into Blackrain's book, thanks to CC I have a starter roll on BCP and added 10% to it this morning making the min cash in the CC BCP buyin tourney.

So long and thanks for all the fish.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

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Back on the Horse!

Well, I think I was just a bit miserable there when I gave up. What a wimp.

Im not going to go back to tournament poker. It does not fit in with my lifestyle and time for playing. I want to play cash and win!

Ive been spending some time going through my database and OMG sometimes I just played sooooo bad. It was horrible to watch the replays. Looking in the reports under flop hand strength "Top pair weak kicker or worse" (weak/no draw) im losing 75bb/100. I noticed this is where most of my losses are coming from and replayed those hands, I just cant beleive what Im seeing. I guess this is a good thing for me to spot, I'm going to try to pot control and give up more in these situations.

I see most of my winnings is coming from AA, KK, QQ type hands, AKs is a losing hand so there must be some work to do there. Also flopped sets. I think whilst my pfr and vpip numbers seem to be alright, Im not giving credit where credit is due and stacking off to easily.

Im feeling good about the future and Im going to give it another crack, success or busto.

I had a good session and played much tighter with perhaps less speculatlive hands button raises. Im not agressive enough preflop, but dont seem to have the skill postflop to take enough pots so Im just going to see if I can keep the graph going upwards and intead of win more pots, lose less pots and draw to less hands.

Turned things back around with a couple of nice sessions and back in the positive by a few dollars after going down to -$8.50. Doesnt sound like a lot but on my tiny roll it was.

I'll be reading some more from Blackrain79's book. Ive very much enjoyed the read so far and there are some suggestions here I need to try out.

Very aggressive preflop so it seems to timid old me, big bets pre for AA and KK, whilst I'm getting a lot of folds when its folded to me in MP, I have AA/KK and make a standard 3xbb raise and get folds. I guess Im going to get these folds if I bet 12c or 16c if they were folding anyway and more value from fish on the chance they will call. Ive also begun thinking about the suggestion of which players to simply avoid getting in big pots with. This has got me back on track to finding the players I do want to get in pots with and realise this is where the money comes from.

Off to a party tonight but will hopefully get the alarm set for 5 and see some of you in tomorrows bovada game.

So my first challenge is $50 or bust.

Good luck
 
Samango

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Well I'm glad you're back on it cos this thread is very interesting and I had already decided half way through reading it to subscribe, so Good Luck and I look forward to learning more.
 
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Was just curious if you had tried Leakbuster? i started playing 6 max cash games this year, and it has been a big help for me. Really helped me get my stats where they needed to be and clean up alot of the stupid stuff i was doing. It has some really great content. I finally ended up getting some coaching, and when we did the initial database review the majority of my stats were in the right ballpark, and it was for sure due to Leakbuster.

I'm still trying to figure it all out myself , but i believe i may have finally solved one of my biggest leaks, and since i have been working on it, things are going pretty good recently.

good luck!
 
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