Re-raising with AA and KK

A

alan1983

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What are the main benefits of re-raising preflop with AA and KK?

If youre in somewhat early position, then re-raising to isolate the pot heads-up is essential. But when you can reasonably assume after a raise youd be last caller, what other benefits are there?

is it to build up the big pot since youre ahead?

When youre not particularly loose on the table, but playing the standard relatively TAG game, then re-raising preflop pretty much announces to the whole table that you have KK or AA.

So then you may either get original preflop raiser to fold, or he calls reluctantly, checks flop then folds to your bet, unless he outdraws you.

Wouldnt it be better to disguise your hand, since thatd get more money potentially postflop?

Say an AQ raises and hits a Q. If you had reraised him and bet strong, hell think about laying it down, prob. putting you on AA or KK. But if you had just called, chances are hell bet flop and turn as if hes ahead, and will put you on a much wider range, including KQ, QJ and other hands he beats.

Even on this board, you always see replies in hands analysis such as "he doesnt kk or aa coz then hed have reraised preflop"

Is it better to take it down while youre ahead and always re-raise preflop? Or alternate between the two? or disguise it when youre in position?
 
ChuckTs

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You reraise with these hands since you're way ahead of anyone's range with them, and you want to a) get more money in the pot and b) protect your hand.

Read this: https://www.cardschat.com/f49/brief-study-big-pocket-pairs-66803/

It's much better to 'announce to the whole table you have AA/KK' than to let a player see a cheap flop and outdraw you. Most players are too loose PF anyways and will pay you off with crap regardless. If you're being seen as an ABC tag player, then mix your play up some. Pull some squeeze plays, or raise in EP with suited connectors so when you make these moves with AA/KK, people remember when you did it with 67s, and they pay you off.

Generally people at the low limits aren't this observant, though, so you can just flat out play your hand and get paid off anyways.
 
A

Alfoldem

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the last time i tried to get "creative" with pocket A's

min raised from late position, "inducing some action", everyone folded except BB who called
flop comes down 3 3 7
BB min bet, i raised, he called etc etc to showdown BB shows me 73o for full house!
if id raised more sure id only have picked up the blinds but better than losing $15

Hard and fast everytime since and they hold up much better

:D
 
WizardEyes

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never had luck with KK almost ALWAYS get screwd when i raise with it but AA has been quiet the opposit
 
BKrywko1

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I personally love using the early-position limp-reraise move with AA or KK, myself in tournament play - especially when I have a couple of aggressive players yet to act after me after my initial limp-in.

But, yeah, you generally have to raise these hands because of what Chuck already said.
 
joosebuck

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the new FOTM move is smooth call with aa/kk.
 
J

joeeagles

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What joose is saying is true, I'm starting to see this in tourneys too. Fact is though, when I see them its mostly because they get cracked, so it probably happens even more often than I realize.

It's a strategy that I don't suggest because I see it very dangerous if you're not skilled enough to understand when you are beat and let them go, and most people just are not able to fold them even when the evidence is kind of overwhelming.

In the later stages of tourneys I have done the limp/reraise from UTG and 2nd position because it seems to work every time and on every table, because there's always someone who raises since your limp makes a steal attempt look juicier. But the only reason I do it is because I try to win more than only the blinds and antes with AA, and occasionally you might catch someone that will reraise you all-in. I will, however, raise from any other position with no exceptions.

When I happen to play every now and then a cash game I will never limp from any position with AA. The thing that I notice at the levels I play ($50 max) is that when the UTG or an EP limps, many times that pot will go 3, 4 or even 5 way to the flop, since many times players follow the limper. As a matter of fact I no longer limp UTG with, for ex., TTor 99, I either raise or fold ,depending on table. I understand that it might be very different at higher stakes.

Anyways, besides from UTG or in very EP, I always think that raising and reraising is the way to go with AA, even if you might be giving important information.

I will admit though that the situation described by Alan where another player has raised and you can reasonably assume you'll be the last caller, ex. you're the button or one of the blinds, does sound tempting for deception purposes.
 
Schatzdog

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This happened to me with AQ. Hit TPTK and because my pfr was smooth called I put Villain on KQ, not KK.

I think smooth calling can be a good way to go once in a while to mix up play. I'd say that this needs to be combined with good flop and post-flop skills as your decisions going forward once you have smooth called are quite different than if you'd re-raised pf.
 
dj11

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I hereby pledge that I will preflop fold my next 3 AA's as a supreme sacrifice to the poker gods.
 
dj11

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That pledge was broken at the absolute first opportunity.
 
J

joeeagles

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Lol dj, I didn't believe you the 1st anyway.
 
Suited Frenzy

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What are the main benefits of re-raising preflop with AA and KK?

Is it better to take it down while youre ahead and always re-raise preflop? Or alternate between the two? or disguise it when youre in position?


The main benefits of reraising preflop w/ pkt AAs or pkt KKs are that you scare away the trash hands & let the others who arent completely out of it know that you have something big. No matter what, when you have such a preflop hand as those two hands, you need to reraise...its a must. Even if they fold to you & you get whatever, you dont want to lose w/ such good preflop hands as those. Winning the pot is the objective no matter what hand you decide to play but when you have either 1 of those hands preflop & some1 raises you, you have to reraise back. Get whats in the pot & dont be scared to push if you have to. Remember....reraising w/ these hands preflop is a must.
 
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DaRiver4Me

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I agree...the rags usually get me when I have KK.....but a lot of times they shine through. I always make a small raise PF....and see what shakes loose. That is just my opinion...
 
Vhyre

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KK has never been profitable enough for me like seeing it. Its almost like the server is tricking you late in an MTT. AA on the other hand...has been very very good to me in the past.
 
F Paulsson

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If re-raising announces to the table that you have AA or KK, I suggest you start re-raising with a few more hands.
 
reglardave

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The goal is to pressure anyone/everyone to make big decisions preflop, when you know you have the best of it. Last time I cracked pocket rockets, it went like this:

Came down the blind vs blind, sb limped with his aces, giving me a free look at flop with 76os. Flop came 7-6-3, bb moves all in and loses to my 2pair. Any kind of pre raise woulda sent me away, esp since I was on the bubble in a tourney at the time.

Play strong hands strong. Better a small pot than a big loss.
 
alexanderwoo1

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I would raise around 5-10 times the big blind to put pressure on the donks who call with rags.
 
F

FinalTable

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That was one of the best points I read out of the "Super System".

Big Pairs = win small pot or lose big pot (generally speaking).

If your opp can put you on a big pair and you wait until after the flop to make a move, the only thing that will call you are hands that can beat you. With AA - I like to get all my money in preflop. I won't raise all-in, but I'll put in a larger than normal raise for the table. If I'm at low stakes and everyone is raising and calling with $1, I'll raise $2 with my AA. If I get called, we'll see what comes out and I can lay down if I'm beat. But - if I'm reraised...my $2 raise told everyone I have a hand. If I'm reraised, I'll push all-in. Usually when this happens, I'm up against a KK. I win more than lose, but you always remember the losses more.

If I have KK and I raise the $2 and get reraised - I'll have to take a look at a couple of things. I'll more than likely going to call, but I can see myself folding given the right conditions. My chip stack for one...do I want to wipe out 3 hours of work building to lose when I am probably a dog to an AA? If I don't have that much (relative to bankroll) than I'll take the coin flip. If this person is LAG and he's pushed with hands like 88/99/1010 then no question I'm calling. So most of the time KK I'll call a push - but with AA, I'll push. If I win the blinds...okay - better than getting a bad flop and pushing anyway to lose. (Win small or lose big).
 
joosebuck

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If re-raising announces to the table that you have AA or KK, I suggest you start re-raising with a few more hands.

yep. abuse the image one way or another. start reraising pots with tons of dead money (ep minraises or 3x raises and 1-2 people call). or start smooth calling aa/kk when maniacs are behind you.
 
crancko

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Just now. A minute ago, some opponent tried limping in with KK. I had JJ and raised to 5BB, he doubled my bet. I called and hit a J on the flop. Gave him room and took him out. A hard raise would have stopped me dead in the tracks before i even got in there. JJ isnt exactly your overall wonder hand.
 
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homerphobe

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Alan, from what position are you talking about disguising your hand strength? If you smooth call a 3bb bet from late postion you are offering 4.5-1 odds for the BB to call with trash and try to win a big pot. If you got any action from the big blind you'd have to give it up. You might be able to do this rarely in a big major tournament or with very deep stacks to mix up your game, but you'd have to be able to get away from it if you didn't hit top set and saw any big raises. It's FAR too risky a play in any online full ring scenario I can think of; only heads-up very short handed play.
 
A

alan1983

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To people who gave examples of limping in, im not talking about that.

Thats certainly very terrible, i won a pot with 52s against limped aces a few minutes ago lol, so wouldnt recommend it anytime soon.

What im talking about is when someone already raises it to 4X or 5 times the blinds and youre in late position.

So youre not letting anyone get a free look with rags.



what im talking about is purely based on my limited experience and not an analysis. joose and FP i do reraise with other hands sometimes and steal the pot but youll only do that a couple of times anyway b4 people notice you dont fall into their routine "reraises with kk and aa pattern".
 
F Paulsson

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what im talking about is purely based on my limited experience and not an analysis. joose and FP i do reraise with other hands sometimes and steal the pot but youll only do that a couple of times anyway b4 people notice you dont fall into their routine "reraises with kk and aa pattern".
Right. But that's what you want, is it not? To create some deception for the times you really do have a premium?

In no-limit, you need the deception. Occasionally re-raising with non-premium hands is not deviating from a TAG-style of play, it's a part of the TAG-style of play. It's what makes it work.
 
A

alan1983

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Right. But that's what you want, is it not? To create some deception for the times you really do have a premium?

In no-limit, you need the deception. Occasionally re-raising with non-premium hands is not deviating from a TAG-style of play, it's a part of the TAG-style of play. It's what makes it work.

Good point.

I think the issue is i dont stick around one table for 2 much time so dont give those things 2 much consideration.

And itd be hard to capitalise when everyone instantly folds and they dont see your hand lol.

Would you suggest showing it or would it be too obvious youre doing it for image?
 
joosebuck

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when limping goes badly

pokerstars Game #9685377646: Tournament #48887713, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2007/04/30 - 16:56:19 (ET)
Table '48887713 207' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: galacticcat (38763 in chips)
Seat 2: buydeo (5860 in chips)
Seat 3: tinamarius (16935 in chips)
Seat 4: joosebucklol (26053 in chips)
Seat 5: J_Dianda (17380 in chips)
Seat 6: aggero (36507 in chips)
Seat 7: NeoGizmo (46957 in chips)
Seat 8: sahkone (15501 in chips)
Seat 9: jhans (31902 in chips)
galacticcat: posts the ante 75
buydeo: posts the ante 75
tinamarius: posts the ante 75
joosebucklol: posts the ante 75
J_Dianda: posts the ante 75
aggero: posts the ante 75
NeoGizmo: posts the ante 75
sahkone: posts the ante 75
jhans: posts the ante 75
buydeo: posts small blind 600
tinamarius: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joosebucklol [Kd Kc]
joosebucklol: calls 1200
J_Dianda: calls 1200 sweet
aggero: folds
NeoGizmo: calls 1200 nice
sahkone: calls 1200 awesome, someone will surely raise now looking to steal the dead money
jhans: calls 1200 any time now..
galacticcat: calls 1200 wtf
buydeo: folds
tinamarius: checks GOD.
*** FLOP *** [3c Qc Ts]
 
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