Quick hand quiz: What's the correct move?

What's your move?

  • Fold - any ace or queen screws up my hand, and pocket pairs don't like multiway pots

    Votes: 6 11.5%
  • Call - see the flop before I invest more money. If I hit the flop, my hand's strength is concealed.

    Votes: 20 38.5%
  • Raise - I have the best hand!

    Votes: 26 50.0%

  • Total voters
    52
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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I'm planning to make a post about a specific topic that I think is fairly widely misunderstood, but I want to make a not entirely scientific poll first to see how you think this should be played:

You're in the big blind in limit hold'em, and suddenly God Almighty stops time and comes down and shows what all the others at the table have. You find out, then, that, in order:

The first player to act raised with
:7c4: :7h4:

He was cold called by a player with
:10c4: :qh4:

Then, a call came from
:9d4: :8d4:

The player on the button 3-bet with
:as4: :10d4:

And you look down to see that you're holding
:js4: :jd4:


You know that no matter what you do, everyone currently in the hand are going to come along to the flop.

What do you do? Fold, call or raise? I don't want to have a discussion about this just yet, because I want you to vote accordingly to how you would play it, not how someone else at this forum eloquently thinks you should play it. :) So, just vote, and we can comment and discuss why one is better than the other at a later time. Thanks.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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Freddy, i'll vote, but can you just clarify what this means for me.

"The player on the button 3-bet with"

Did he call, raise, i dont understand the terminology, sorry!?
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Ah, sorry. 3-bet here means that he raised.

If you bet, and I raise you, and it gets back to you and you raise me back, that's usually called a "re-raise". But in this case, it was a new player who hadn't spoken yet, so he wasn't "re-raising" (since he hadn't raised before he couldn't do it again). Then it's usually called "3-betting".
 
tenbob

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Good thread FP. The nature of poker means that you have to bet hands that are currently the best. Id raise here and re-evaluate on the flop. Ok the likelyhood that the flop helps "someone" is huge. Hopefully you could get well paid off here with a good flop tho.

RAISE !
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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F Paulsson said:
:) So, just vote, and we can comment and discuss why one is better than the other at a later time. Thanks.
LOL, I knew this would be ignored, but I didn't think Tenbob would be the 1st culprit!
 
t1riel

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I'd fold. Pocket Jacks are evil and even if you do hit your set, there are straight possiblities for the other players. True, you have the highest flush providing four diamonds come on the board. Even if I see the flop and it looks good for me, it also looks good for some of the other players as well. I don't know about you, but I would fold.
 
robwhufc

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LMAO - Freddy, you should have put it in bold!
 
R

ruffcut68

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Raise
If your gonna go go all the way or stay home
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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robwhufc said:
LMAO - Freddy, you should have put it in bold!
Yeah. :p Fortunately, we've gotten some differing views, so the people who have yet to decide may not have been persuaded one way or the other by reading before voting.

To me, this decision is not even a close one. I'll make a post explaining why; tonight, hopefully. I have some other stuff to do so I won't be home until late, but hopefully I'll have some time left.

Keep voting though. :) Now that there are multiple people on every option, adding your voice won't single you out! Vote vote vote!
 
Xandit

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You have to raise here. You have the best starting hand. it's as simple as that. You would raise if you didn't know what the others had. You need to play this hand. There are only 2 overcards that beat you. there is only one smaller pair. Even if the flop does come with a straight draw you still need to play your hand. If no A Q 7 come on the flop you are ahead. unless someone spikes 2 pair 89 ect which is unlikely. Plus your implied odds are huge. You are rasing 1 sb to win 8sb which is 8-1 on your money. I'll take those odds all day.
 
Four Dogs

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I call because blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah. Yadah, Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah,Yadah.
Or I might 4 bet.(Is that possible?)
 
Tammy

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Four Dogs said:
I
Or I might 4 bet.(Is that possible?)
Yes. :) That would be capping the bet (if I'm not mistaken, FP?). I voted call.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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equity(%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 32.8650 % 32.84% 00.02% { JdJs }
Hand 2: 16.1377 % 16.11% 00.02% { 7c7h }
Hand 3: 16.7794 % 16.41% 00.37% { QhTc }
Hand 4: 14.6336 % 14.61% 00.02% { 9d8d }
Hand 5: 19.5843 % 19.21% 00.37% { AsTd }

I think it's pretty clear you need to cap it preflop. Solid poker is based on getting as much money in as possible while you have the best hand.

Also, if you know what everybody else has, it makes your postflop decisions far easier. ;)
 
Osmann

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I would definately raise here. You have way the best and want to get as much money in the pot as you can. Of course There's a lot of cards that will give another player a better hand, but at the moment you are the favourite. It's actually very simple: Bet/raise with the best hand and Check/fold with the worst hand.

Edit: I just ran it through an odds calculator, and you are a 32.84% favourite to win, so with 4 other people in the pot, it's a definate raise. The [10d][As] is the second best hand with a 19.21% chance of winning the pot.
 
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Bill_Hollorian

Bill_Hollorian

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Let's bring it uptown.

You have 33% equity in this pot, and are only contributing 20% to the pot.
There are many dangerous flops sure, but a little variance never hurt anyone (sufficiently bankrolled of course)



I vote for taking uptown one more time.

Bill
 
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Four Dogs

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If Bill says raise then I want to change my vote to raise as well.
 
twizzybop

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Yet raise cause you have the best hand??

You don't know you have the best hand... To assume that you do is nuts especially with the the 2 raises(not 3 by the way). Not to mention that you act 1st as well because you are in the blinds. One definatly needs to recognize position here as well.

So yes you could raise but you still will be acting 1st. Since we've become Fortune tellers, you are now drawing against an Ace, Queen, a flush draw, not to mention cards that will help you make your straight.

Definate call.. a bet saved is a bet earned.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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- Yes you do know you have the best hand, and that capping is a profitable move in the long run. Read the posts by Bill and I.

- Position is irrelevant here as you have all the information you need anyway, seeing as you know the other people's hole cards.
 
robwhufc

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t1riel said:
I'd fold. Pocket Jacks are evil and even if you do hit your set, there are straight possiblities for the other players. True, you have the highest flush providing four diamonds come on the board. Even if I see the flop and it looks good for me, it also looks good for some of the other players as well. I don't know about you, but I would fold.
I wonder whether Poker is really the game for you if you think this! Although there is every possibility that you could lose this hand, the potential rewards far outweigh the risks. If you play 10 hands like this you will make a significant profit. pot odds are what poker is all about, and need to be understood if you are ging to make poker pay.
 
Sammyv1

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Well I am here to learn. I would raise. Can't wait to here if I am wrong or not!
 
Sammyv1

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F Paulsson said:
suddenly God Almighty stops time and comes down and shows what all the others at the table have.

Did you guys see this part??
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Actually I would raise not because I have the best hand (all you have are the best under cards),but to get rid of any riders.
 
twizzybop

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Yes you do know you have the best hand

No you don't and you know what assuming is.. it is the mother of all **** ups.

Position is irrelevant here as you have all the information you need anyway, seeing as you know the other people's hole cards.
Wow! Dorkus I want you at all my tables considering now you've become a fortune teller. In reality you don't know the nature of any of these hands, yes you can guess, yes you may guess correctly, yes you may guess wrong.
But to safely assume again that you have the best hand and in best position which you are not is wrong.

I am sure as well that you aren't superman and have x-ray vision. 4 others hold cards which there are 8 cards out on the table. We can only guess what they may or may not have. Safe to assume the 1st raise was indeed pocket cards? Nope for all we know it is a 10,2 doyle hand.

Unrealistic vision by the god allmight shows you are against all those hands.. Now if we know god all mighty is going to give us insight then by all means raise till the cows come home, and by the way. You are at the wrong tables then.. you'd be better off at limits considering the god all mighty just gave you superior vision.

Realism shows this isn't even a mock hand. Now what if you have the 9,4 would you cap off the bet?? Wait what if you have pocket 22's? How about pocket AA's?

Lets play with the unknown factors which scientifically the game is supposed to be played by. Sceintifically there is no such thing as god.. we came from apes remember?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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....what on earth are you going on about?

Read the first post. It's a hypothetical question (bolded and italicised so maybe, just maybe you'll pay attention to it), your inane rambling is completely irrelevant, though quite amusing.
 
Acathla

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lol.Twizzybop, i guess you didn't see this in the first post: You're in the big blind in limit hold'em, and suddenly God Almighty stops time and comes down and shows what all the others at the table have. You find out, then, that, in order.

As for what i would do: I would raise.
 
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