Pot Odds for ATC

PokerVic

PokerVic

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A bit of pre-amble, if I might. After a few failed attempts, I've successfully moved up to NL($0.25) ring games and am consistently showing a small profit. I've been using PokerTracker to plug holes in my game, and it's helped immensely. (along with info found on these forums) I generally play a tight-aggressive style, loosening or tightening slightly depending on the table.

I've noticed that I'm calling a lot in the SB. My VP$IP from the SB is a whopping 43.7%, compared to just 15.9% from the BB. Even after noticing this trend, I'm still doing it. Often, it's just completing the bet, but I have also been calling raises in situations where an early raiser gets called by others. I find myself on a lot of passive tables where 3-4 limpers will come in on hands and the BB rarely puts a raise in. It seems like I'm getting pot odds to call, even with very marginal hands.

So, the question is this. You're on the SB at a fairly passive table. What pot odds would you need to call with any two cards if you're fairly certain (80%) that the BB isn't going to raise? How about in a raised pot?
 
dj11

dj11

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Assume limping. If it walked to u and the bb, your getting 3-1 on calling. Means you only have to prevail once in 3 times to break even. Odds go up with limpers, 4-1 5-1 and at 6-1 its nearly mandatory (odds wise) to limp in.

Smaller raises before it gets to you demand a better hand, with several callers.
 
T

tarrantino

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than you steal a lot off the blinds in late position
stealing the blinds in position is absolutely a good tactik
you get the pot 8 / 10 and iff you got a great hand theu often put you on a bluff
SB is a fantastic position
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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Completing in the sb is generally frowned upon especially with ATC. Lets say you have 72o and your getting 4/1 to call from the sb with 2 limpers. What flop are you looking to hit with this type of hand? You have to be looking at hitting 2 pr b/c a pair probably doesn't cut it. The odds of hitting 2 pr is around 49/1. If you have suited cons, one gaps connectors etc, then these may be worth completing occasionally as you have more chances of hitting fl draws, str8 draws and 2 pr type hands rather than just ATC. Completing from the sb with just random stuff is usually a big leak. If it's folded to you and your up against the bb, raise rather than complete. One more thing if you have limpers in the pot and you complete your playing the rest of the hand oop, again another reason to fold atc in the sb.
 
PokerVic

PokerVic

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Yeah, I'm usually throwing the hand away unless I hit 2 pair or better. Obviously, if I have a real hand, it's a great time to toss in a big raise, but I still don't like stealing the blinds with trash.

The reason I started to question this, is that I re-read Harrington on Hold'em I and II, and in the examples he suggests making calls with (what I would consider) marginal hands just due to the pot odds offered. Maybe it's just a difference between tournament and cash poker.

Edit: Also, aren't your implied odds quite good in the situations where you flop a great hand in these situations? With so many limpers, and a prebuilt stealworthy pot, you're bound to get action.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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But your 49/1 to hit a decent hand, you will never have enough implied odds just with ATC. Better hand selection you may have better implied odds, like the sc's but not with ATC such as 72o, 94o trash.
 
A

abinferno

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Generally, you should be throwing away your rags from the SB, but sometimes when there is a raise and a couple limpers, or just a few limpers regardless, you should raise hard from the blinds and try to take the pot down there. You don't want to see a flop with your rags, so raising a small percentage of time to pick up the limped money is a good strategy. Normally, everyone will fold, or you'll be left with one or two callers. You can usually pick up the pot with a continuation bet, especially high cards hit the flop that you can represent. Otherwise, simply completing from the SB is a good way to bleed chips.
 
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