Moving on up, Cash Game Thread

[ConDeck]

Yeah I agree, it was a nitty fold. I don't mind dodging the variance right now though, but I won't be passing it up in the future

Had an awesome session tonight. 500 hands of 10NL and 600 hand of 25NL. I made more money at 10NL then 25 though, haha

Bankroll: $311.50

I should add... I am not advocating cold 4b or cold calling JJ to a 3b as standard. Just in this precise spot.

Nothing wrong with taking lower variance plays, especially on a limited roll as you currently are and folding is always EV neutral here.

Good to see the BR increasing

 

[akaRobbo]

Nice BR! Why not stick to 10nl now you're properly rolled for it? Would hate to see run bad at 25 and roll suffer.

 

[IPlay]

Nice BR! Why not stick to 10nl now you're properly rolled for it? Would hate to see run bad at 25 and roll suffer.

Want to get back to grinding 25 but I am moving down if I slip under 250 which is sill a decent bankroll for the 10nl games on here

 

[xdeucesx]

Move up as quick as possible imo. GL at 25nl

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 69.08 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 16)
CO: 120.08 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
BTN: 95.6 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 28 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG: 128.84 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 16)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: J:spade:

fold, MP raises to 3.4 BB, fold, BTN raises to 12 BB, Hero calls 11.6 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (28.4 BB, 2 players) 6:club: T:club: 9:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 16 BB, Hero calls 16 BB

Turn: (60.4 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (60.4 BB, 2 players) 8:club:
Hero checks, BTN bets 48 BB, fold

BTN wins 57.4 BB

Flatted in almost the same spot as last night except it wasn't total nits. Does he really have 1010 here? Is this spot closer to a 4 bet considering the 3bet comes from button and the opener was a looser player? Oh and getting absolutely rekt so far

 

[MinhANguyen]

Readless I just fold JJ from the blinds to a 3-bet. JJ offers a ton of RIO, even when there are no overcards. Even QQ does. It's hard to get away from them when the board is all raggy, especially QQ after committing most of your stack. We're not exact getting a good price to call since we're cold calling instead of being the OR and calling the 3-bet, and we're OOP. I think it's 4-bet or fold. Sucks using JJ as a 4-bet though because it blocks their 3-bet bluffs and JJ from their 3-betting range.

I don't know if Villain is a good thinking player in that hand, but that's a really bad board to bluff at in a 3-bet pot. It hits our perceived range really hard, which consists of a lot of middling pairs: 1010/JJ/QQ. KQs is also probably going to take a card off. So I think when he bets a little big on this board texture, he either has a bigger overpair, a set, or a nasty hand like AKss. Unless he has no hand reading ability and is a fish that auto c-bets AKo in a 3-bet pot. The only thing you're beating here is whiffed overcards, and even those have a good amount of equity against you. You are crushed by 99, 1010, QQ, KK, AA. This might be nitty, but I would have folded pre, and folded flop as played.

Also something interesting I've seen on Bovada is that pot-sized opens tend to generally be weighted towards stronger hands. I think I've also noticed that pot-sized opens aren't messed around with (3-bet) as often. I remember seeing a lot more KK/AA, 4-bets in response to my 3-bets, and QQ when I 3-bet pot-sized opens/ended up jamming over their 4-bet.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 69.08 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 63 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
SB: 96 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 28 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
MP: 128.84 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:diamond: K:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10.4 BB, BTN calls 7.4 BB

Flop: (21.2 BB, 2 players) T:diamond: 7:club: T:heart:
Hero bets 15.08 BB, BTN raises to 52.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 37.52 BB

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 102.88 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
BB: 129.28 BB (VPIP: 56.25, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG: 44.04 BB (VPIP: 5.56, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 18)
CO: 30 BB
Hero (BTN): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has K:diamond: 9:diamond:

fold, CO checks, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, fold, BB calls 3.4 BB, CO calls 3.4 BB

Flop: (13.6 BB, 3 players) 6:diamond: Q:club: 2:diamond:
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 9.28 BB, BB calls 9.28 BB, fold

Turn: (32.16 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
BB checks, Hero bets 19.08 BB, BB calls 19.08 BB

River: (70.32 BB, 2 players) A:club:
BB checks, Hero raises to 67.24 BB and is all-in

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 168.36 BB (VPIP: 78.79, PFR: 6.06, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
Hero (SB): 159.56 BB
BB: 114.56 BB (VPIP: 25.71, PFR: 2.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
CO: 97.88 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 5.71, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8:club: K:club:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 8:spade: J:heart: 8:heart:
Hero bets 4.48 BB, BB calls 4.48 BB

Turn: (14.96 BB, 2 players) 3:spade:
Hero bets 10.48 BB, BB calls 10.48 BB

River: (35.92 BB, 2 players) J:club:
Hero checks, BB bets 35.92 BB, Hero calls 35.92 BB

BB shows J:spade: T:club: (Full House, Jacks full of Eights)

BB wins 103.76 BB


Enough missed from flop to justify calling here? Or spew? I can't lie, I checked to call so I pretty much snap called without really thinking about villains passive stats and the fact it was a PSB. x/calling river should be fine but maybe not when it is this large?

 

[IPlay]

Hand 1 AdKd

Is it safe to assume villain has some bluffs here with AJ+?

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: Td7dTh
Equity Win Tie
MP2 58.15% 56.10% 2.04% { AdKd }
MP3 41.85% 39.81% 2.04% { JJ-66, AQs-ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo-AJo }

Is this range fair for villain?


Hand 2 Kd9d

Jamming river should be fine? Or is this villain only folding weaker flush draws and probably not any Qx? Probably kind of spewy against this player but against a reg this should be ok?

Hand 3 Kc8c

I still think calling this large of a bet probably isn't too good, especially against this villain. Maybe should call only under 70%?

Bankroll: $278.45 and declining, used all my run good up at 5 & 10NL apparently. Starting a short session now, kind of tired and tilted but going to try and finish the weekend off with a win.

I can't blame my 25NL struggles on nothing but run bad though, I have made some spewy plays and have had some poor river sizings(too large) that work at lower stakes but not at 25NL. People don't fold to blind aggression at 25NL like they do the lower stakes because hand reading and adjustments are being done much more efficiently here so I need to tone my game back to where it was.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 78.84 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
Hero (CO): 109.64 BB
BTN: 159.32 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
SB: 108.04 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 18)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:spade: Q:club:

Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.4 BB, 3 players) J:heart: 4:diamond: 9:spade:
BB checks, Hero bets 6.68 BB, BTN calls 6.68 BB, fold

Turn: (22.76 BB, 2 players) T:spade:
Hero bets 14.88 BB, BTN calls 14.88 BB

River: (52.52 BB, 2 players) J:spade:
Hero ???

b/folding? Sizing? Villain has seen me run a bluff previously. After I post this I realized my turn sizing is way too small. Just a thought

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 111 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (CO): 103.08 BB
BTN: 129.84 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
SB: 131.48 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 4)
UTG: 144.12 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 4)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:heart: Q:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) 3:club: T:heart: 5:heart:
BB checks, Hero bets 5.4 BB, BB raises to 16 BB, Hero calls 10.6 BB

Turn: (38.4 BB, 2 players) T:spade:
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (38.4 BB, 2 players) A:club:
BB checks, Hero ???

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 87.50, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 16)
SB: 255.32 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
BB: 136.2 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 16)
UTG: 99.6 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
MP: 182.2 BB (VPIP: 68.75, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
Hero (CO): 147.92 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 5:diamond: A:diamond:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) Q:spade: Q:diamond: 6:heart:
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 6.24 BB, BTN calls 6.24 BB, fold, fold

Turn: (24.48 BB, 2 players) Q:heart:
Hero bets 14.68 BB, BTN calls 14.68 BB

River: (53.84 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
Hero bets 26.08 BB, BTN raises to 76.08 BB and is all-in, Hero ???

AF of 2 Can we fold to this player when the only hand that beats us is Quads and AA?

 

[MinhANguyen]

I don't remember much about blind aggression at 5NL and 10NL, but I don't think there is much blind aggression at 25NL except at 25NL zone, which is pretty aggressive BvB and Blind vs Button. They fight back a lot more, float c-bets, etc.

But in cash games, you should still be able to open 25-35%, just probably not as much as you could in 5NL/10NL. And a lot of them play fit-or-fold or super passively, and you almost never ever see bluff-raises, which isn't uncommon in Zone.

Hand 1 you're probably behind with AK. It's unlikely he's jamming with A high here; he likely has a pocket pair, pair, or a draw. People do not generally go crazy with air for 60bb when you show a lot of strength OTF with big bet.

Hand 2 I really like your triple barrel. Did it work? Unless your opponent had AQ, he can't really call here. His range (should) be super capped. But he is a passive fish, and it's hard to put him on a range here. I would have probably given up on the river. You should save triple barreling for higher stakes or unless you have a really good read that it will be profitable against your specific opponent; people at 25NL try to be heros all the time or just don't want to believe you. Trust me! I've checked the hand histories of the times when I 3-barreled for value, and was surprised at some hands people try to hero me with. I've only pulled off 2 or so successful 3-barrels, and the others ones didn't go so well even though my line was really strong when they had just a bluff-catcher.

Hand 3

I would just end up sigh folding here, especially against that sizing. He played the hand exactly as if he would have a jack, and when people just smash the pot button after you've shown a lot of strength, they usually have it. Not always, but usually. Just the other day, some guy barreled off about 2.5BI into me on a board where my range seemed super "capped" OOP with A high multi-way . Such a sick hand.

 

[MinhANguyen]

Hand 4 Pretty close between bet/fold or check call. If he has a Jack, he's going to bet that hand anyway OTR if we check. Also gives him a chance to hang himself if he missed his draw, and since you guys have history with each other. I think both are pretty good choices.

Hand 5 Just give up or bet really big to rep that you were trapping with the ten, or that you have a strong ace. Thing is, if he were bluff-raising, A-high can make up a good portion of his range, and he will call you down with an A. You probably can fold out medium pocket pairs or middle pair with a big river bet though, which is probably a good part of his range.

Hand 6 Probably a snap fold. Doubt he is floating two streets multi-way with A high. I don't think most players would even float A high multi-way on such a dry board. And he really shouldn't be floating here with two other people to act behind him and with a bet in front of him.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 80.36 BB (VPIP: 39.06, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 65)
BTN: 171.92 BB (VPIP: 20.43, PFR: 15.05, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 97)
Hero (SB): 212.48 BB
BB: 98.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 166.72 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 97)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 2:spade: 2:diamond:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 3.4 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (7.8 BB, 2 players) T:heart: 9:spade: 2:club:
Hero checks, BTN bets 5 BB, Hero raises to 14.6 BB, BTN calls 9.6 BB

Turn: (37 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:
Hero bets 21.68 BB, BTN calls 21.68 BB

River: (80.36 BB, 2 players) 7:club:
Hero bets 58.88 BB, BTN raises to 132.24 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 73.36 BB

BTN shows 9:heart: T:spade: (Full House, Nines full of Tens)

BTN wins 336.84 BB


Ever finding a fold on river? I have been getting the better of him the 100 hands we have played and made him fold alot but................. damn, 25NL has been harsh on me these last 4k hands. I need to be good 26% of the time here, am I ever?

Session started off terrible today, I finally caught ground and was starting to piece together a small winning session and was getting value in some really good thin spots, then I lose AK vs QQ and this hand in about 5 minutes. All of my tough spots this weekend were basically coolers and I hate posting them, but thats pretty much sums up the weekend. So I'm done for the day and dropping back to 10NL until next Friday no matter how much my bankroll grows so I can ensure I have enough buy ins to grind 25NL all weekend, even if I hit a bad stretch of variance. Edit: Actually only a couple of these hands are beats so I don't feel too bad

Bankroll: $234.83

 

[IPlay]

Guy is a solid reg, straight forward player, he is never shoving a straight, over pair, A9, only boats and I got the nut low. Seems so obvious and it was call 73 to win 200 so I kind of felt like I just couldn't fold and called without thinking too much about it. I need to slow down and think in these big river spots and find hero folds. For sure a leak I'm starting to spot from writing it out in here.

 

[MinhANguyen]

Yeah, that's actually a really terrible spot to be in. This is never a bluff, and your full house is crushed by his entire value range. 1010, 99, and 109 play exactly the same way deep-stacked. And when he raises you on the river as opposed to the turn, it's very likely he was slowplaying a boat. If you were semi-bluffing with a draw, he doesn't want to get you off your hand. He actually wants you to hit, or give you more rope to hang yourself.

Being able to make disciplined folds will help your winrate a ton. Back then, especially if I was on some tilt or downswing, I'd call a third barrel thinking "Seriously? They can't have it again." And everytime they'd show me the best hand. Being able to make hero folds, especially OTR or in 3-bet pots are going to save you a ton of money. I actually folded a straight once (56s) on a 789Q board after I got raised on the turn and bombed all-in when the river came a 5, making it 789Q5. Couldn't put him on anything other than J10. Don't think he's turning sets or two pairs into bluffs, and think almost nobody opens 40%+ in the SB. Plus, I'm blocking the fives and sixes in my hand, and another 5 was on the board. Also folded AK once when I flopped a K in a 4-bet pot right on the flop with a 180bb deep stacker. Just had a gut feeling he had Aces or the unlikely KK, and I was right (Aces).

To beat 25NL, it's just value bet more, bluff less, and learn how to fold postflop/preflop against aggression. They are not playing back at your as much as you think they are. 4-bets/5-bet shoves are 85+% Aces or Kings, so don't start committing yourself everytime you have AK just because you have OMGZ BLOCKERZ or because "if I don't 4-bet/5-bet AK my range is going to be so unbalanced." You will go broke.

And I think it's neat that you're taking shots with 10BI for 25NL, but I would recommend against it. Variance is a bitch, and it's not super likely you can keep pushing forward with that bankroll. I've been a 25NL reg on Bovada for about 3 months, winning at a rate of 8bb+/100 hands for a decent sample size. I've gone on about 2 6BI downswings, and my biggest downswing was 14BI. I recently got out of that 14BI downswing and swung up 20BI; one hell of a roller coaster. Also, it will probably feel like every decision you make with a limited bankroll more stressful and tilting if you make a mistake or get sucked out on big time. You will also run very cold at times and get sucked out on or cold-decked frequently for a good stretch of hands at times, so your bankroll needs to be able to withstand that.

Wishing you luck and great job so far!

 

[duggs]

I want to talk about pre, this call is almost certainly losing money against a reg.

 

[IPlay]

I want to talk about pre, this call is almost certainly losing money against a reg.

I agree and am usually folding 100bb deep. I thought it would be ok this deep but I am still OOP and villains button range isnt going to be strong enough to get stacks in majority of the time. Also when he coolers me it is going to be easy for him to get stacks in.

And Minh, I agree about my BRM being agressive but I kind of explained that in the OP and it will tighten up substantially once I am back at 25 permanently. What's your sample size at 25 and do you plan on taking shots at 50 anytime soon?

 

[xdeucesx]

I want to talk about pre, this call is almost certainly losing money against a reg.

+1, Seems like you already recognize it, so gj.



As far as brm, i'm in camp move up quickly. Rake is so killer at micros and I don't think there is really a huge skill jump from 5-->25nl on bv. I say be aggressive and willing to move down if needed.

 

[IPlay]

+1, Seems like you already recognize it, so gj.



As far as brm, i'm in camp move up quickly. Rake is so killer at micros and I don't think there is really a huge skill jump from 5-->25nl on bv. I say be aggressive and willing to move down if needed.

Just a thought, about his range being weak and not getting stacks in often, would this be a set mine if villain were UTG and his range was strong and we were this deep?

 

[xdeucesx]

Just a thought, about his range being weak and not getting stacks in often, would this be a set mine if villain were UTG and his range was strong and we were this deep?

Absolutely. I mean, I don't think it's like a massive leak to be flatting 22 pre in this spot, but probably losing in the long run. However, yeah, put him UTG and he's strong, definitely calling.


It's nice to see an active thread worth following again, keep it up dude

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 109.6 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 20.63, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 64)
BB: 103.88 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
UTG: 78.16 BB (VPIP: 25.84, PFR: 13.48, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 91)
Hero (MP): 240.68 BB
CO: 115.68 BB (VPIP: 32.65, PFR: 12.24, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)
BTN: 141.72 BB (VPIP: 88.46, PFR: 46.15, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 26)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:diamond: A:spade:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, BTN calls 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero ???

 

[MinhANguyen]

I have around 60k hand, more or less. I took a shot at 50NL with 22 BI, but ran terribly in two sessions. I was really uncomfortable flipping, 60/40, 70/30 for $100. Also the fact that each all-in was 5% of my bankroll. Im at 38BI for 50NL, will take a 5BI shot when I get to 40BI. Should have a lot of time after finals are over for college, and I'm on winter break