Moving on up, Cash Game Thread

[akaRobbo]

Lol IDC man, I am giving up online poker for a couple months and am just going to mess around at the Casino on weekends or something. Probably just going to run up my roll or donk it off at this point and take a break and try out a different site in the future. Preferably one that has rake back, ACR is looking pretty good these days.

Online is dying day by day. Im also so bored of it now. I just ran my roll up from $100 to ~$260 in 10 days playing 5/10nl and I'm so bored of 10nl already. The initial heater to get out of 5nl was fun but now beginning the grind of 10nl has caused me to completely lose interest in playing, I have no urge to play at all.

There's absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel for me at 10nl, can't afford to deposit more to play higher due to life commitments and the thought of grinding up 30+BI at 10nl makes me want to vomit. Then there's the huge possibility of me running bad at 25nl and I'll be back grinding 10 again.

How long am I gonna have to grind 10nl for? 3 months + sounds fairly sensible, I'd be lucky to do it in less than a month. 2-3 months of God knows how many hundred hours just to make $300 or whatever so I can move up. No thanks.

 

[IPlay]

I agree with working on my mental. I've put so much work into fundamentals that I think reading some Jared Teller mental game of poker series would probably be helpful. Also need to fine tune some of the rarer math spots.

Yeah Robbo, it really sucks and gets really old and running bad whenever you move up is horrible and you could realistically be stuck at 10NL for 6 months, especially on stars where I assume 25NL is pretty solid compared to Bovada so variance should hit you a little harder? Or does rakeback make up for the tough games?

Actually I have been wondering if playing on a site with 30% RB reduces variance, if so by how much? Can you make much steadier money with RB or do you still have large swings?

 

[bitowl]

Good question, on the flip side of the coin, I've been tempted to play at bovada instead of WPN because everyone says the games are so much softer. Only reason I haven't is because I like bitcoin deposit/withdrawal and don't want to have to cash shady checks from Singapore or whatever at my bank.

 

[IPlay]

Is the bitcoin easy to set up? I would be a complete noob at it

 

[bitowl]

I think it's pretty easy. Sending bitcoins from address to address is basically as easy as copy/pasting the address to send to and hitting send. I go from coinbase -> blockchain.info ewallet -> WPN. The deposit option just gives you an amount of bitcoin to send to a specific wallet and its in your balance in like 30mins. Withdrawals take like a day. Fees are very small. Only downside (or upside) is the bitcoin price isn't that stable so you're exposed to that risk for the time you're holding bitcoins.

There are rumors that coinbase might block you if you send directly from their wallet to a poker site, so you should use an intermediary wallet. blockchain.info has been around for ever and I think is about as safe as it gets.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Why is there days where u just have no chance at winning no good u r

There should always b a chance but nope the harder u try to win those losing days the harder the fall lol

Play more when winning and play less losing is my mindset but gawd poker sucks heh

 

[Aces2w1n]

Hmm wednesday was generally a good day for me.... fck thursday and ill do wed.

So schddule now will b
Mon-wed 4am -6am b watchful on wed
Thursday hate you and wont play
Friday ill do night session 9pm-11pm
Saturday 4am-6am and 9am-11am
Sunday 4am-6am

Ill be posting my bankroll and my mental state on a day to day basis and ill post like 5 hands of the session

And lets go from there and see how it goes.

Keep bashing me with criticism pls and lets fight through it.

Will b playing 5nl until i defeat the 3 step challenge and go from there...

This challenge seems to b 2 things.
1. They secretly giving 10k to elite members of stars perhaps or old ones so to speak who bycott complain.
2. Encourage ppl to ov r play and bust and deposit more money on site.

Anyways thats how its going to roll... im not going to try and climb fast and just grind gradually

Trying to look at things as moee long term and not and try n remember i cant win eevrrything in a day or week or month.

Its a slow process and harsh and mainly for mental reasons of the game. Time to press on and learn from experiences

 

[Aces2w1n]

Oops srong thread oh sht sry

 

[vinylspiros]

In. good luck bro. will be following.

 

[IPlay]

Back at it like a crack addict

Not taking online too serious at the moment but will probably be putting in about 10 hours a week in my spare time(I actually had to get a job)

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 80.76 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
CO: 94.28 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BTN: 113.72 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
SB: 94.28 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
Hero (BB): 107.64 BB
UTG: 146.04 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 7:spade: K:spade:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) 7:club: 8:spade: K:club:
Hero checks, CO bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 12.8 BB, CO calls 8.8 BB

Turn: (32 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
Hero bets 18.6 BB, CO raises to 78.48 BB and is all-in, Hero ???

Snap call or is this spot iffy and why? I think pre is fine to defend but that could be too loose vs a CO open.

 

[TimovieMan]

The flop check-raise is something a lot of players sooner do with draws than with strong made hands.

In that case, the turn is a blank, so I think there's plenty of AA/AK/worse Ks in his range as well as some big draws on his part (AcQc/Ac8c/JcTc/Tc9c).

I think it's a call. We need about 35% equity to make the call.
If I put 77/88/QQ+/AK/KQ/AcQc/Ac8c/JcTc/Tc9c vs our hand, we have 45%.

 

[vinylspiros]

villainss range here is mostly, 78,KQ and sets imo. This is just an ugly spot where most of the time we are behind.

The only reason i might be calling here is because i dont like your turn sizing and it might look like we are drawing and he might be overplaying a draw himself.


Bet turn bigger. Dont know if its a call but i lean towards folding for some reason. (the majority of the time i think he has KQ here with the action given).

 

[IPlay]

Does villain ever think he has fold equity here? The only hands I should fold here is air and I never have that. I have at worst a flush draw here that majority of players are not folding(read less on Bovada) so why would he shove AcQc, Jc10c etc with the decent price I gave him? I do agree with your ranges except I think if he wanted to bluff it would happen on the flop. At the same time the flop is so draw heavy you would think AK+ would just 3 bet GII. Unless he has Acx and isn't afraid of a turned club.

Also, Vinyl I sized the turn to set up a river shove and keep his one pair hands in, I probably could have gone larger though but throwing my thought process out there.

 

[vinylspiros]

Does villain ever think he has fold equity here? The only hands I should fold here is air and I never have that. I have at worst a flush draw here that majority of players are not folding(read less on Bovada) so why would he shove AcQc, Jc10c etc with the decent price I gave him? I do agree with your ranges except I think if he wanted to bluff it would happen on the flop. At the same time the flop is so draw heavy you would think AK+ would just 3 bet GII. Unless he has Acx and isn't afraid of a turned club.

Also, Vinyl I sized the turn to set up a river shove and keep his one pair hands in, I probably could have gone larger though but throwing my thought process out there.

We are pretty much on the same page here and are looking at the hand from the same angle. He obviously knows you are not folding and he probably knows that you dont have air. Im not saying he is bluffing. Most of the time he has Set/2P. i think if he has 78 ,then he is raising it on flop and trying harder to GII. This looks like a fold to me, as im sure it does to you too and its not an easy fold but if your good you know when to let go of things that look good but arent as good as they look. (which im sure you know )


As far as the sizing turn bit. I do understand that you are betting for value and are setting it up for a river jam but i personally believe (from experience) that people will go over the top to a half pot bet with draws more often than a larger (65-80%) bet .

I could be way off but it seems that betting bigger on each street can make it more obvious for us to know if villains are floating/jamming with air or made hands.


Meaning, the bigger we bet the less likely they are to float us(with air or just a weak hand) and go over the top to our bets with hands that are behind. Because some people tend to translate bets of 50% and below to being weak hands. you get my drift? And all of this stuff makes our decision more difficult IMO.


Just some thoughts.

 

[IPlay]

He showed up with AcAd and after the hand it made sense for him to have Ackx/AcAx hands that would play this way and I sometimes take this line and was wondering what you guys think about the way villain played his hand.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 150.32 BB (VPIP: 14.58, PFR: 14.58, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 48)
BB: 41.4 BB (VPIP: 2.86, PFR: 2.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 29 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP: 93.52 BB (VPIP: 54.17, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 48)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
Hero (BTN): 111.56 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:diamond: Q:club:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 3:club: T:diamond: 6:spade:
CO bets 5.68 BB, Hero calls 5.68 BB

Turn: (18.76 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
CO bets 18.76 BB, Hero calls 18.76 BB

River: (56.28 BB, 2 players) T:spade:
CO raises to 72.56 BB and is all-in, Hero ???


What do you guys think of the flat pre? I still like my decision here to keep villains range wide and the blinds were nits with 100% FtS

Flop call should be fine too, I should be ahead of his CBet range and I can hit cards that he will fire a double barrel on with most of his bluffs.

Turn call, pretty standard. Could I shove here?

River, what range do you guys put villain on here and why?

 

[TimovieMan]

What do you guys think of the flat pre? I still like my decision here to keep villains range wide and the blinds were nits with 100% FtS

Flop call should be fine too, I should be ahead of his CBet range and I can hit cards that he will fire a double barrel on with most of his bluffs.

Turn call, pretty standard. Could I shove here?

River, what range do you guys put villain on here and why?

No argument against the flat. I nearly always 3-bet here because I'm ahead of a general CO range and want the initiative, but meh. The blinds aren't joining, he's an unknown, and we'd hate to get 4-bet.

Flop: I would peel one as well. This is a c-bet he'd make with his entire range, so this one is meaningless.

Turn: I just call and want to get to showdown. His bet sizing either means "go away" or "pay off, donkey". Feels like WA/WB.

River: the overbet, like the turn pot bet, is either for very fat value or a "fold now!" bluff. His range is going to be very polarized, imo. With the Q on board, he's not doing this with JJ/99 or worse PPs, or 3x/6x, imo.
This is going to be overcards/busted draws or boats.
I don't think he has a T here (or he has QT or TT), because AT/KT/JT would slow down on the turn, imo. And I'm not counting weak suited aces because we have the Ad.

I say:
QQ+,TT,66,33,AJs+,KJs+,Q9s+,J9s,AJo+,KJo+,QTo+,J9o

We're a huge favourite against this range, but if we take some of his bluffing range (all non-suited ones for instance) and weaker Qs out, then we're looking worse and worse.

QQ+,TT,66,33,AJs+,KJs,QTs,J9s,QTo

We still have 40% equity vs this range, though. I still advocate a call.

 

[xdeucesx]

Pre is fine, flop is fine I guess, turn is ok.

As far as river though, how often is he overjamming w/o the nuts? I mean, I give him like 0% bluffs here, or some tiny non-zero number. Its not even like it's a board where he could be semi-ing and decides to jam river when he bricks.

I expect him to show up w/lots of KK/AA, Tx and boats. Big hands that want to just jam river since is pretty far ahead.

 

[IPlay]

Yeah I block the Ad(which I over looked at the time) so only hands this turn is good for bluffing with is AK/AJ but I block those too. I should of thought longer about the river but I had a "I made it this far" moment and called pretty quick and wasn't surprised when he showed 33. Would you just fold flop deuces? Not too weak?

Here is a picture that sums up the last 6-9 months

 

[IPlay]

Alright guys, it has been a very long 6-7 months since I started this thread and went on a pretty long breakeven stretch time wise. But hands wise it has only been 75k hands which really isn't many but when you are running bad, it seems like an eternity but things are finally looking a little better the last couple of weeks and I am actually decently in the green since the start of this thread and have a growing bank roll. Since I complain so much about running bad I gotta share these coolers(first time I've been the one coolering people in awhile)

Enjoy

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 96.28 BB (VPIP: 26.75, PFR: 6.09, 3Bet Preflop: 4.46, Hands: 183,960)
UTG: 182.36 BB (VPIP: 26.96, PFR: 12.57, 3Bet Preflop: 3.50, Hands: 182,100)
MP: 34.12 BB (VPIP: 28.07, PFR: 12.87, 3Bet Preflop: 3.18, Hands: 178,759)
CO: 139.04 BB (VPIP: 28.87, PFR: 12.77, 3Bet Preflop: 3.42, Hands: 162,603)
BTN: 84.2 BB (VPIP: 34.27, PFR: 14.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.20, Hands: 177,311)
Hero (SB): 514.76 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 7:club: 7:diamond:

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) A:diamond: 7:spade: A:spade:
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: (7 BB, 2 players) 7:heart:
Hero checks, UTG bets 7 BB, Hero raises to 25.4 BB, UTG calls 18.4 BB

River: (57.8 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero bets 486.36 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 153.96 BB and is all-in

Pre should be alright? Once he pots turn and calls my raise pretty obvious he has an A and I don't think anyone is ever folding top boat readless at these stakes, especially after the flop check.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 91.36 BB (VPIP: 37.73, PFR: 8.92, 3Bet Preflop: 4.13, Hands: 179,708)
BB: 88.08 BB (VPIP: 26.75, PFR: 6.09, 3Bet Preflop: 4.47, Hands: 183,892)
UTG: 162.76 BB (VPIP: 26.96, PFR: 12.57, 3Bet Preflop: 3.49, Hands: 182,033)
MP: 200.16 BB (VPIP: 28.07, PFR: 12.87, 3Bet Preflop: 3.18, Hands: 178,693)
Hero (CO): 284.48 BB
BTN: 51.68 BB (VPIP: 34.28, PFR: 14.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.20, Hands: 177,240)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:heart: T:diamond:

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.4 BB, 2 players) T:club: A:spade: 6:club:
UTG checks, Hero bets 6.88 BB, UTG calls 6.88 BB

Turn: (23.16 BB, 2 players) T:heart:
UTG checks, Hero bets 14.08 BB, UTG calls 14.08 BB

River: (51.32 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:
UTG checks, Hero bets 259.52 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 137.8 BB and is all-in

This hand I am a little more unsure about. My logic on river is if he has a busted draw he isn't calling anything, if he has an A he will call a good size bet and if he has a 10 he will call a shove. Not sure what bet sizing is the most EV though and I may actually post this hand in the HA forum.

 

[Aces2w1n]

yeah calling behind with pp is fine in position

the only hand thats calling is 66

smaller raise ak will look u up etc

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 39.12 BB
MP: 145.84 BB
Hero (CO): 99 BB
BTN: 67.68 BB
SB: 163.44 BB
BB: 118.84 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: J:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: K:heart: 4:club:
Hero bets 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB

Turn: (15.4 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (15.4 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
Hero bets 10.4 BB, BTN raises to 22.8 BB, fold

Should I pay off the shorty?

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 87.04 BB
CO: 104.16 BB
BTN: 60.04 BB
SB: 94 BB
Hero (BB): 120 BB
UTG: 112.28 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8:diamond: 8:club:

fold, MP calls 1 BB, CO raises to 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (13.4 BB, 3 players) 4:diamond: T:heart: T:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 7 BB, BTN calls 7 BB, Hero raises to 22 BB, CO calls 15 BB, fold

Turn: (64.4 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (64.4 BB, 2 players) 7:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 30 BB, fold,

I really don't like this hand. I raised flop because I can be ahead pretty often and I don't want overs seeing the turn. Once I'm called though I only want to get to showdown so was raising the flop wrong?

 

[mbrenneman0]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 87.04 BB
CO: 104.16 BB
BTN: 60.04 BB
SB: 94 BB
Hero (BB): 120 BB
UTG: 112.28 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8<font color='red'>♦</font> 8<font color='black'>♣</font>

fold, MP calls 1 BB, CO raises to 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (13.4 BB, 3 players) 4<font color='red'>♦</font> T<font color='red'>♥</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font>
Hero checks, CO bets 7 BB, BTN calls 7 BB, Hero raises to 22 BB, CO calls 15 BB, fold

Turn: (64.4 BB, 2 players) 3<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (64.4 BB, 2 players) 7<font color='black'>♠</font>
Hero checks, CO bets 30 BB, fold,

I really don't like this hand. I raised flop because I can be ahead pretty often and I don't want overs seeing the turn. Once I'm called though I only want to get to showdown so was raising the flop wrong?

Totally villain dependant, but he might just be bluffing at it. You're only screwed if he had a 10. Totally villain dependant though, if he has a high AFq then he's bluffing a lot of the time. If he's a passive player then he has you beat.

His half pot bet puts you in a tough spot I think because he's either trying to block so he can get the right price for his draw or he's trying to get a lot of calls. Definitely tough to say though. I suppose a fold on the flop wouldn't be terrible.

 

[TimovieMan]

KJ: we've underrepped our hand, and he might very well be bluffing. I pay off the shorty. It's only a minraise.

88: if we're calling to setmine, why not just realize we missed and fold the flop? He c-bet into two people which indicates he at least has something. I doubt that's going to be unimproved overs or 66/77. More likely he has a T or an overpair. The way he played it, it's almost certainly an overpair.

 

[IPlay]

KJ: we've underrepped our hand, and he might very well be bluffing. I pay off the shorty. It's only a minraise.

88: if we're calling to setmine, why not just realize we missed and fold the flop? He c-bet into two people which indicates he at least has something. I doubt that's going to be unimproved overs or 66/77. More likely he has a T or an overpair. The way he played it, it's almost certainly an overpair.

It is such a dry flop and when villain calls what does he have? Kx, 8x, 44 and maybe 99-JJ. Which of those hands are raising the river?

88 hand I didn't really call to set mine and I think I actually have the best hand pre pretty often so maybe I should of just squeezed instead of playing a middle PP OOP.

mb, you are right but unfortunately it is 100% readless in Zone. My logic here is that hands that I am ahead of want to make it to river for cheap so they are not betting 1/2 pot for thin value. I think my biggest mistake in this hand is pre.

 

[mbrenneman0]

It is such a dry flop and when villain calls what does he have? Kx, 8x, 44 and maybe 99-JJ. Which of those hands are raising the river?

88 hand I didn't really call to set mine and I think I actually have the best hand pre pretty often so maybe I should of just squeezed instead of playing a middle PP OOP.

mb, you are right but unfortunately it is 100% readless in Zone. My logic here is that hands that I am ahead of want to make it to river for cheap so they are not betting 1/2 pot for thin value. I think my biggest mistake in this hand is pre.

Yeah you're right, didn't notice that pre. If its good enough to call then its good enough to raise (at least from OOP) probably 3b or fold

I keep forgetting you play zone haha