Min Raising

[wicked663]

I think that is two strategies working together. One min raising everytime you play and the other playing post and pre flop the same despite the strength of his hand. You should try and stay consistant when you play so people can not predict what you have but why not try and the limit the field when you play a hand. Why not come in for 3x blind raise everytime you play and get a couple of people out of pot right there? That way you are less vulnerable post flop.

 

[Lemlywinks]

I am not saying you should min raise pre-flop, but i think that it does have its uses during the course of the game during a hand. But when it comes to pre i have to agree with you completely. Way too many callers with a weak raise like that. It could pay off if you hit something big, but you are asking to be drawn out on

 

[kmixer]

I followed this to the letter just now in a 9 player $1 Sng and came in 2nd place. Any hand I was in on, including JJ and QQ 1 time each, I did a min raise before the flop and after the flop I would either check, 1/2 pot or full pot depending on how it turned out for me. I also folded pre flop if anyone came too far over the top. Did this for any hand that I would have normally 3x raised or better on.

Will try it again at dollar level to see if this holds up again.

Not thinking it would play well even at low buy in SnGs though

I think min raise after the flop is stupid, and I used to think pre flop, but I watched this guy min raise pre flop every hand he played, if it was re raised he didn't call, but most of the time he just got a lot of callers, then after the flop he would bet half the pot, every time same scenario if he was raised all in he would fold , however he never changed his play so when he had the nutzs or a good hand he got paid off. The key for him was he did it with just the hands he wanted to play, never changed his strategy, was able to fold, able to win with his actual hands, and after the table switch I saw him again at the last three tables of the Ultimatebet free roll. I ended up leaving earlier then he did, but it was definately an interesting strategy.

 

[LarryT503]

Wow! Boy do I feel dumb. I guess I've minimum raised on many ocassion, but now I'm going to rethink my play That was some great insight into why a stronger bet has advantages, especially in a cash game. Thanks for the advice.

 

[dj11]

There is no coherent strategy guide for freerolls because there is no coherence in freerolls. With half the folks forgetting they signed up, and half the rest thinking it is 'Spades', and another half thinking it is 'Hearts', and still a few more thinking it is Pinochle , your best bet may be to sit out the first half hour.

 

[kmixer]

Tried this again at $1 level. Came in 5th place. Going for it 1 more time.

I followed this to the letter just now in a 9 player $1 Sng and came in 2nd place. Any hand I was in on, including JJ and QQ 1 time each, I did a min raise before the flop and after the flop I would either check, 1/2 pot or full pot depending on how it turned out for me. I also folded pre flop if anyone came too far over the top. Did this for any hand that I would have normally 3x raised or better on.

Will try it again at dollar level to see if this holds up again.

Not thinking it would play well even at low ($5+) buy in SnGs though

 

[kmixer]

Did the min raise pre flop anytime I was entering a pot thing again and I finished 3rd. So that is two times in the money 2nd and 3rd and one time I came in 5th.

This may actually not be a bad strategy for micro SnG games and certainly seems to change the idea that min raising should never be done.

1) Pre flop min raise all levels. If re-raised examine hand as usual to see if the re-raise call is worth it
2) After flop play as normal but playing 1/2 pot raises for a decent part of the flop and full sixe pot bet for all strong flops
3) After that it played out like other normal hands to me.

I noticied that a min raise in most cases was almost like liming and with a stronger hand a way to get more money in the pot.

I doubt anyone will write a book on the success of this and of course I would love to hear how it turns out in a $10 (or higher) Single Table SnG

 

[ncmtngirl79]

heythanks for the response, i want to try it but i need to practice more self control, i thought it was pretty interesting strategy though and i am glad that this post was brought up because I never would have thought about posting about it other wise!

 

[Steveg1976]

Did the min raise pre flop anytime I was entering a pot thing again and I finished 3rd. So that is two times in the money 2nd and 3rd and one time I came in 5th.

This may actually not be a bad strategy for micro SnG games and certainly seems to change the idea that min raising should never be done.

1) Pre flop min raise all levels. If re-raised examine hand as usual to see if the re-raise call is worth it
2) After flop play as normal but playing 1/2 pot raises for a decent part of the flop and full sixe pot bet for all strong flops
3) After that it played out like other normal hands to me.

I noticied that a min raise in most cases was almost like liming and with a stronger hand a way to get more money in the pot.

I doubt anyone will write a book on the success of this and of course I would love to hear how it turns out in a $10 (or higher) Single Table SnG

I am not supporting this strategy but if you raise stronger with better hands than you do weaker ones, smart opponents will pick up on this. You should not be basing raises or bets soley on the strength of your hands, this is one of the few tells a player can have online.

At the mircos this will work becuase so few of the players actually pay attention. As you get higher though this strategy will get exposed especially #2

 

[kmixer]

As I stated I think it is something that will certainly work in smaller buy in games. I certainly feel that I had opponents folding when the min raise came in and when they did call if the flop didnt come my way it was a lot easier to get away from the hand. However if you arent playing this way all game then it will be an easy read when you do it just like anything else.

Try it on a 10K play chip game and see how it goes. I think the competition in 2000 and 10K play money can be similar to $1 anyway.

heythanks for the response, i want to try it but i need to practice more self control, i thought it was pretty interesting strategy though and i am glad that this post was brought up because I never would have thought about posting about it other wise!

 

[NewHill]

That's what "everybody" says

Well if that's what everybody says, then don't you think they won't see it coming?It's all about feeling out your opponents and trying new plays to mix up your game.So if you feel it's right try min raising with AA and see if another player thinks your weak and trys to go over the top of you.When and if they do you've got them right where you want them.

 

[kmixer]

Agree. I also do not support this strategy 100% and think that a lot more has to go into it for it to make the moeny every time and at higher levels.

After the flop I was mostly following #2 and it worked out for me most of the time. I could see mixing this up a bit but if you raised 3x BB (instead of 2) and the flop came with TPTK in your favor, what would your bet be? Depends on a lot of factors doesnt it? But I dont think it isn much different if I has 3x raised or 2x ore flop and I doubt many would tell the differnce.

The one thing about the 2x (min raise pre flop all the time is that it is hard to put the raiser on any kind of strategy or hand at all. I was doing it with AA and I was doing it with KQs. Difference is if you had a lot of callers pre flop you are going to need to isolate if the flop does not come in your favor. The hand really starts right after the flop in a case like this.

I need to get back on my TAG game so I wont been doing much with this for a while but I would like to see how it works out in MTT at some point.

I am not supporting this strategy but if you raise stronger with better hands than you do weaker ones, smart opponents will pick up on this. You should not be basing raises or bets soley on the strength of your hands, this is one of the few tells a player can have online.

At the mircos this will work becuase so few of the players actually pay attention. As you get higher though this strategy will get exposed especially #2

 

[kmixer]

I had another ITM game using the min raise with a twist today. Took first place this time. Again I must repeat that I do not think this will work in high buy in games. However, I am 3 for 4 with this strategy though at $1 SnG 9 players.

I will say this. A few times I did the Min raise on hands where I would normally put up 3x BB and I was glad I did when th flop missed me 100%. Of course this is more premeditated play and on average would not be the case.

Also it does not seem to scare peopel out that much when you bet 2x vs 3x. I really think a 4x BB bet is needed to start narrowing the field especially early in a tourney.

 

[kmixer]

Lots of negative min raise discussion here but seeing it quite a bit in the bodog freeroll. Are the peopel in this thread and the other thread that are against min raises only talking about after flop or when they re-raise perhaps?

Even Harrington suggests min raise (2x BB) 15% of the time.

 

[RickH2005]

Min Raisin'

Min raising just tells the others you really don't have anything to speak of--BUT it IS one way of adding to the pot, a lil'! An' it's not a very good way to bluff, if that's yer intention!

 

[lightning36]

Wow - I hate to see dogmatic answers like "Never do something" because then you are limiting the items in your bag of poker tricks.

One online group of players I play with gets extremely paranoid about minimum raises. So ... sometimes when I have nothing, I minimum raise and watch everyone bail out of the hand.

Remember: Plays like minimum raising are best usued to confuse your opponents.

 

[Steveg1976]

Anyone who thinks Minimum raising is a good idea outside of very specific set of circumstances needs to read, "Why you Lose at Poker" the book explains why it is such a bad idea.

 

[kmixer]

Agree! I have read quite a few articles that point out that a min raise shows tons of strength. I just lost came in 24th on the freeroll. I am not used to the Bodog interface so i just clicked on the mon raise and the call from the other side was 88. I had AK and meant to bet half my stack but could not get to the slider in time. Of course I called the all in from the other player and he won with 88 and 8 on the flop.

So min raise and AK all around bad for me this time around.

Wow - I hate to see dogmatic answers like "Never do something" because then you are limiting the items in your bag of poker tricks.

One online group of players I play with gets extremely paranoid about minimum raises. So ... sometimes when I have nothing, I minimum raise and watch everyone bail out of the hand.

Remember: Plays like minimum raising are best usued to confuse your opponents.

 

[kmixer]

Harrington suggests it 15% of the time with strong hands like AA KK QQ

Anyone who thinks Minimum raising is a good idea outside of very specific set of circumstances needs to read, "Why you Lose at Poker" the book explains why it is such a bad idea.

 

[LarryT503]

I'm trying this method out, and have won some hands on bluff rather than hand, but betting weak cards is a little stressful. I guess maybe to keep players guessing I should play a weak hand from time to time?

 

[Steveg1976]

Harrington suggests it 15% of the time with strong hands like AA KK QQ

It has been a while but I don't remember Harrington advocating Min raising at all, limping yes but min raising no. If he did what page of which book so that I can re-read it.

 

[kmixer]

Page 180 Part 5 Betting before the Flop

Again, I need to vary this amount in a random pattern, so my actual bets might look like this:

35% Raise Three times the BB
35% Raise four times the BB
15% Raise twice the BB
15% Raise Five times the BB

It has been a while but I don't remember Harrington advocating Min raising at all, limping yes but min raising no. If he did what page of which book so that I can re-read it.

 

[Merlin333]

Well, not going to call anyone stupid. Sometimes not being able to see what others do reflects your ability not theirs.

I think the game is about adjusting to all factors that affect play. Whether the game is free or buyin certainly falls into that category of factors.

I think to say never in poker is a mistake. There are correct ocassions to do the "wrong" thing. I'm no expert but in a big tournament when players are going all in with zip and will reraise big at the drop of a hat min-raising has a place. I usually don't mix it up in that situation until I have an advantage. I personally have never seen a reckless-all-in-all-the-time-player win a tournament. They are most often out before the 1st break.

It's a guess to know when to counter in that situation. I hear players talk of their skill putting people "on a hand", the best I've seen is Daniel Negreanu - he's scary but it's still a guess and with lesser skill than he - it's easy to be wrong. In SuperSystem2 or Theory of poker (I forget which) there is a passage where the author says he loves to get "perfect readers" in a hand because he can exploit their reading ability to his advantage.

One example is that I know several players who automatically and without fail read a minraise (any raise that is not strong) as a weak hand or that you can't play. These players are easily trapped by a "weak" bet with the nuts and for those not willing to revise their read, the trap can be terminal.

The strength of folding mid/weak hand/positions and playing stronger ones is not just playing the strongest hand/position you can, but also dodging an opponents superior hand/position.

I have heard many great players speak of not having an "ABC game". I take that to mean play in a manner that is not easily, accurately, interpreted by your opponents - that would have to include not making the standard play in every situation. I guess the downside is that you look like a noob when you get caught.

Merlin333

 

[vincemcnabb]

I just did a min raise from UTG (A5s) in a cash game and ended up with an A high flush on the turn and a pot that was 7x the BB. Is the advice in this thread only for tourney play?

Umm...wow...ok well let's say I min raised UTG with 72o, then flop is 7 7 2. Does that completely sway the masses that suddenly min raising is an incredible play, because look what happened when i made a stupid move and got lucky? No...you just got lucky.

 

[jtberrym]

full tilt

check out full tilt ...there was a recent post as to the min check raise....i personally think it isnt a great bet because it seems like a weak attempt to bluff someone off a hand. just my opinion