Just starting PLO. Fold?

[prizzy711]

I am just learning PLO High. I played this hand zoom. I think my mistake was giving a free card on the turn. Hard to fold Trip Kings..
https://www.boomplayer.com/en/28881812_EF0E0B6BE9

 

[Zhubiitis]

its play money man there no logical play he see pair of deuces and call and get runner runner straight

 

[PHX]

You played it well, check back turn and call river just got unlucky. Ace is normally in opponent range there on turn so check back is correct play. Got call river too only 2 hands beat and you can scratch one of those out of his range given how the hand played out. Loose call on flop by your opponent out of position without any overcards to the board calls like that will get you in trouble a fair bit.

 

[VisionNutz]

Okay first off this title is misleading = you are playing NL Omaha not PLO (pot limit) .PLO means Pot Limit Omaha meaning on each street the most you can bet is the size of the current pot.

Now in terms of your play its not THAT bad (you are doing pot control) which is very smart because the turn brings an Ace of clubs which puts a backdoor flush out there along with a straight draw. This is a good sign meaning you can tell your hand is not that strong and you wanna minimize damage if you're behind.

but seeing as how you checked the turn you are basically done with the hand on that river. One concept to understand my good sir is that in NLO or PLO the hands can often run much bigger its not uncommon to see straights busted, flushes busted and even full houses busted. So once you check the turn you've basically signalled some weakness and the river is essentially irrellevant as you've given the big stack the opportunity to take control. Now having said that you do end up rivering the set of Kings which turns into a bluff catching hand. So the times that villain is bluffing on that river you call and win! Good job! Which by the way, bluffing happens alot in PLO or at least semi bluffing

What beats you? Not many hands (some assumptions have to be made like he didnt flat call your raise with AAxx) and then check the turn. All that beats you is AA or J10.

I plugged in the hands (just heads up values) and this is your equity on each street

Pre Flop - 68%
Flop - 70%
Turn - 82%
River - 0%

Knowing these values now you should be able to understand at any point in this hand except the river you want that money to go in as you have a Positive expected value to win the entire pot. And of course when you get sucked out you look up at the sky and say why poker gods why!

Although your line is very good an argument can be made that you can shut down the hand by the turn. Instead you can take a betting line something like this

Pre Flop - Raise 500
Flop - bet the size of the pot
Turn - ALL IN with 82 Percent equity

I think potting turn in this specific game will not scare the big stack enough times considering its play money so you wanna make him make a really bad decision thats -EV and for you +EV.


But I am still a novice at the game so I would also love some input from higher level players about these lines!

p.s Keep in mind you have Jacks for the straight redraw too.:driver:

 

[prizzy711]

its play money man there no logical play he see pair of deuces and call and get runner runner straight

Do you think play money isn't good practice when learning a new game?

 

[prizzy711]

Okay first off this title is misleading = you are playing NL Omaha not PLO (pot limit) .PLO means Pot Limit Omaha meaning on each street the most you can bet is the size of the current pot.

Now in terms of your play its not THAT bad (you are doing pot control) which is very smart because the turn brings an Ace of clubs which puts a backdoor flush out there along with a straight draw. This is a good sign meaning you can tell your hand is not that strong and you wanna minimize damage if you're behind.

but seeing as how you checked the turn you are basically done with the hand on that river. One concept to understand my good sir is that in NLO or PLO the hands can often run much bigger its not uncommon to see straights busted, flushes busted and even full houses busted. So once you check the turn you've basically signalled some weakness and the river is essentially irrellevant as you've given the big stack the opportunity to take control. Now having said that you do end up rivering the set of Kings which turns into a bluff catching hand. So the times that villain is bluffing on that river you call and win! Good job! Which by the way, bluffing happens alot in PLO or at least semi bluffing

What beats you? Not many hands (some assumptions have to be made like he didnt flat call your raise with AAxx) and then check the turn. All that beats you is AA or J10.

I plugged in the hands (just heads up values) and this is your equity on each street

Pre Flop - 68%
Flop - 70%
Turn - 82%
River - 0%

Knowing these values now you should be able to understand at any point in this hand except the river you want that money to go in as you have a Positive Expected Value to win the entire pot. And of course when you get sucked out you look up at the sky and say why poker gods why!

Although your line is very good an argument can be made that you can shut down the hand by the turn. Instead you can take a betting line something like this

Pre Flop - Raise 500
Flop - bet the size of the pot
Turn - ALL IN with 82 Percent equity

I think potting turn in this specific game will not scare the big stack enough times considering its play money so you wanna make him make a really bad decision thats -EV and for you +EV.


But I am still a novice at the game so I would also love some input from higher level players about these lines!

p.s Keep in mind you have Jacks for the straight redraw too.:driver:

I noticed that error in title. Sorry.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me!

 

[Richardszabo]

A heavier and more exciting game is Omaha. I think a good game, but the fold is the right step in river.

 

[VisionNutz]

I noticed that error in title. Sorry.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me!

Nope dont be sorry - just correcting not trying to be rude and you're very welcome.

This is how we learn.

one thing I would suggest though, is you can learn more from watching real money cash games live, online or even on youtube if you fancy.

The reason I suggest this is simply because the play money players will make bad calls more often and get lucky and then you will assume you're playing bad.

So best things and tools are listed below

Equity calculations - https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/omaha

hand replay - https://www.weaktight.com/hand

poker trackers - Hold Em Manager or Poker Pilot http://www.holdemmanager.com/buy/211/holdem-manager-2
https://pokercopilot.com/

:ciao:

 

[Jayplay916]

Omaha ive found out is a game of draws and low stakes games will have people callin if the are sitting on the nut draw. I bet according to the chance my opponent can hit their draw because being new to omaha hand outcomes are and to predict because of the extra two cards you get. And too many times i lost with nut straight or flush by a full house so watch out for pairs

 

[prizzy711]

https://www.boomplayer.com/28887711_DB0C167D11

Is this a losing play in the long run? I don't beat many Kings. But seems to nitty to fold. I have noticed, at this level, there isn't much river bluffing. They usually have the goods.

 

[ScooperNova]

I think the L in PLO stands for landmines.

 

[prizzy711]

Should this have been a fold? He insta-raised.

Hero (BTN): PLY13,049.00 (130.5 bb)
SB: PLY13,295.00 (133 bb)
BB: PLY31,232.00 (312.3 bb)
UTG: PLY8,157.00 (81.6 bb)
MP: PLY26,363.00 (263.6 bb)
CO: PLY7,998.00 (80 bb)

SB posts PLY50.00, BB posts PLY100.00

Pre Flop: (pot: PLY150.00) Hero has
UTG calls PLY100.00, MP calls PLY100.00, CO calls PLY100.00, Hero calls PLY100.00, SB calls PLY50.00, BB checks

Flop: (PLY600.00, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets PLY200.00, 2 folds, UTG calls PLY200.00, MP calls PLY200.00, fold

Turn: (PLY1,200.00, 3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets PLY567.00, UTG calls PLY567.00, MP calls PLY567.00

River: (PLY2,901.00, 3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets PLY1,370.00, fold, MP raises to PLY6,851.00, Hero calls PLY5,481.00

Results: PLY16,603.00 pot (PLY913.00 rake)
Final Board:

MP shows : (Full House, Kings full of Nines)
(Pre 52%, Flop 13%, Turn 98%)

Hero mucks : (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 48%, Flop 87%, Turn 3%)

MP wins PLY15,690.00

 

[Zhubiitis]

Do you think play money isn't good practice when learning a new game?

i think no because play money players play very terrible

 

[kapobar]

For PLO you played good but this is NLO i dont play NLO but you have option to bet more on flop and turn but maybe this player will call anything to catch str.

 

[prizzy711]

For PLO you played good but this is NLO i dont play NLO but you have option to bet more on flop and turn but maybe this player will call anything to catch str.

For some reason pokerstars doesn't have plo zoom. Just nlo zoom.

I need to learn to fold on the river when they show strength. That's killing me.

 

[prizzy711]

i think no because play money players play very terrible

I first started playing poker on wsop mobile. that is a joke.

 

[kapobar]

For omaha for me is most important math ,you have more cards and more posibility to be beaten .

 

[VIP_TARIFF]

I'm assuming that you played the hand set of kings here well, just could not throw

 

[prizzy711]

I'm assuming that you played the hand set of kings here well, just could not throw

Thanks. Everyone's feedback is pretty awesome.

 

[prizzy711]

https://www.boomplayer.com/28907467_86D3653BF9

I felt I had to call the flop. got cold feet on the river. I think I should have called river?

 

[63burner]

play money can be good learning experience for new game.

Do you think play money isn't good practice when learning a new game?

If you're serious, play money can be good experience, if you take it seriously, discount the ridiculous all-ins with play money. If you take notes on different scenarios, board texture vs.
your hand, opponent. What play money lacks is the "fear" psychology; "if I take this move, will it bust me, or wipe out my stack? Play money you don't have any experience with bankroll management.
Play money can be good experience . But the limitations are many. Its hard to learn how to be a bully push others around, when chips have no real value. Good luck, better luck with learning on the free, than out of the pocketbook.

 

[PHX]

100% he has J10 there I would fold turn not enough out there to call that huge bet.

https://www.boomplayer.com/28907467_86D3653BF9

I felt I had to call the flop. got cold feet on the river. I think I should have called river?

Many moons ago I found Omaha on play money on Stars. I took 1000 play money chips (that's how much you got for free back then) and ran it up into more than a million. Did not really knew about proper strategy just found game was fun. I then learned the game kept practicing at it and found Omaha8. Over the many years of learning the strategies and playing I have become good at it. I am actually better at either Omaha than holdem.

That's where I started just like you on the play money tables learning and practicing the game and now I final table real money Omaha mtt games all the time.

 

[prizzy711]

If you're serious, play money can be good experience, if you take it seriously, discount the ridiculous all-ins with play money. If you take notes on different scenarios, board texture vs.
your hand, opponent. What play money lacks is the "fear" psychology; "if I take this move, will it bust me, or wipe out my stack? Play money you don't have any experience with bankroll management.
Play money can be good experience . But the limitations are many. Its hard to learn how to be a bully push others around, when chips have no real value. Good luck, better luck with learning on the free, than out of the pocketbook.

Yeah. I find myself folding to these river overbets. but I think I should call just to see the hands and try to learn. since it is play money and all. I find myself still playing like it's real.

 

[prizzy711]

100% he has J10 there I would fold turn not enough out there to call that huge bet.


Many moons ago I found Omaha on play money on Stars. I took 1000 play money chips (that's how much you got for free back then) and ran it up into more than a million. Did not really knew about proper strategy just found game was fun. I then learned the game kept practicing at it and found Omaha8. Over the many years of learning the strategies and playing I have become good at it. I am actually better at either Omaha than holdem.

That's where I started just like you on the play money tables learning and practicing the game and now I final table real money Omaha mtt games all the time.

I shouldn't have called. Obviously I wasn't getting the odds to draw at the flush.

It sucks when you play and there are a few folks in the zoom pool that just go all in everyhand. sometimes they get up to 120k from 10k, but I am sure they lose way more in the long run.

I like O8 the best of all games. I don't know why. I just watched Iregyption wind the wcoop O8 on twitch for 30K. I learned a bunch.

 

[prizzy711]

https://www.boomplayer.com/28914966_5A06094425
This was an O8 hand. I think I should have realized I was probably playing for half the low. Honestly didn't think about the flush. Brain Fart.