An idea for dealing with the mental aspect of bad beats

Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
I've actually been trying this and it works.

Here's the basic premise. Good players are usually getting their money in with the best of it. Against weaker players, often if all the money goes in the only way the lesser player can win (hopefully not you!) is by sucking out.

All pretty straight forward so far right?

The goal in poker is not to win individual hands or even individual sessions. The goal is to consistently make better decisions and fewer mistakes than your opponents.

It therefore follows, that a hallmark of a good player is that they take far more bad beats than they give.

So, I've started keeping a little scorecard for my sessions... bad beats taken vs bad beats given. It turns it into a competition! The goal of course is not to suffer bad beats, the goal is to have the bad beats taken far outweigh the bad beats given. If at the end of the day you've taken ten and given one, you can feel good about the fact you played well. However if you've given 7 and taken 5... you probably should be reevaluating how you play.

Just an interesting way of turning it on it's head to make it work for you.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Pot odds play any role in this competition? Often times I have to call with an underdog hand just because the pot doesn't let me fold profitably.
 
R

RamDen

Rising Star
The best way to deal with the bad beats is not to play at a level where it can affect your confidence too much or make too big a hole in your bankroll
Most bad beats in my opinion are the result of bad play
 
KingCurtis

KingCurtis

Legend
Awards
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Very interesiting I kind of like it....maybe I'll try it sometime!
 
Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
Pot odds play any role in this competition? Often times I have to call with an underdog hand just because the pot doesn't let me fold profitably.

hmm..good question

i don't consider pot odds calls as bad even though they technically qualify...maybe 1/2 a point for one of those?

On the one hand, you didn't play badly, on the other you did suck out on somebody...

Yeah on second thought I'm thinking not include them at all.
 
C

ceoofthenbm

Guest
if you don't have the power mentally to move on from a bad beat, then you should probably just throw in the towel.
 
Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
The best way to deal with the bad beats is not to play at a level where it can affect your confidence too much or make too big a hole in your bankroll
Most bad beats in my opinion are the result of bad play

if you don't have the power mentally to move on from a bad beat, then you should probably just throw in the towel.


sorry but... what's with the new member hit and run posts?

I don't care who you are, at some level virtually everyone is at least somewhat prone to problems with beats. All you need to do is watch any televised poker event to see tons of pros having problems with bad beats (phil hellmuth anyone?)

I'd wager the vast majority of posters here have at least some problems if not serious problems with dealing with it.

Something I read in a recent book sparked this idea and thought it was a pretty interesting take on the thing so here it is. If it helps someone coming to these forums for the purpose of improving their game, awesome! At the least I think it's just interesting.


Sorry but... virtually no one starts playing poker with the ability to immediately move on with no emotional consequences from bad beats...it's a skill that you need to improve right along with all the others.
 
Zorba

Zorba

27
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I don't let them get to me as I remember the times I dished it out, Yes It also happen more often to me than I dish out the bad beat, but why let it get to you, the next hand is starting almost straight away you need to put your mind on the new hand. Call them a donk and move on.
 
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phoebepussy

phoebepussy

Rock Star
Bad beats are an inevitable consequence of a winning poker game.

The point has already been made that the quality of your decisions is all that matters in the long run and if you have made the right decision and lost move on .

It is especially important to get your mindset right if the bad beat happens in a tourney and it takes you from a big stack to being back in the pack, you have to remember that it was your normal game that gave you the strong position and that you can get it back without reverting to coinflips for quick double ups.

Playing within your bankroll helps with the mental reajustment when losing your buy in will hardly be noticed and winning whilst nice isn't a stepchange that represents a leap in your bankroll then one single game or session is just not important in itself.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
pot odds cant be counted as your still making a profitable play so when you hit it isnt a bad beat, same as if people call you with odds and hit its not a bad beat, but meh lets not complicate things.

Sounds like a neat idea and i will definately try it.
 
R

RamDen

Rising Star
The best way to deal with the bad beats is not to play at a level where it can affect your confidence too much or make too big a hole in your bankroll
Most bad beats in my opinion are the result of bad play

sorry but... what's with the new member hit and run posts?

I don't care who you are, at some level virtually everyone is at least somewhat prone to problems with beats. All you need to do is watch any televised poker event to see tons of pros having problems with bad beats (phil hellmuth anyone?) Hellmuth moans cos it gets him air-time i dont see too many others moaning (its a hazard of the game)

I'd wager the vast majority of posters here have at least some problems if not serious problems with dealing with it. The biggest problem is not letting it go and moving on If you let it affect your mindset it will affect your game

Something I read in a recent book sparked this idea and thought it was a pretty interesting take on the thing so here it is. If it helps someone coming to these forums for the purpose of improving their game, awesome! At the least I think it's just interesting. I dont really think counting beats given as opposed to beats taken can give a true reflection of your game


Sorry but... virtually no one starts playing poker with the ability to immediately move on with no emotional consequences from bad beats...it's a skill that you need to improve right along with all the others.That is why you should play at limits that wont affect your confidence if these beats happen

Thanks for the nice welcome to the forum
i might be a newbie but i gotta start somewhere and if you gonna make posts that are trying to solicit discussion then you should take it on the chin what other members are saying to you or do you believe you are right and everybody else is wrong (see Hellmuth reference in post)
 
Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
I don't care who you are, at some level virtually everyone is at least somewhat prone to problems with beats. All you need to do is watch any televised poker event to see tons of pros having problems with bad beats (phil hellmuth anyone?) Hellmuth moans cos it gets him air-time i dont see too many others moaning (its a hazard of the game)

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Who knows, who cares. Are you somehow saying that because you think Hellmuth doesn't have issues with beats that lots of amateurs don't either?

I'd wager the vast majority of posters here have at least some problems if not serious problems with dealing with it. The biggest problem is not letting it go and moving on If you let it affect your mindset it will affect your game

I don't disagree. I also don't understand your point. Do you disagree with my statement or are you just trying to argue? The whole point of my original post was a way (as in one of many) you might help yourself get to the point where you can let it go and move on. If you don't need the help yourself, good for you.

Something I read in a recent book sparked this idea and thought it was a pretty interesting take on the thing so here it is. If it helps someone coming to these forums for the purpose of improving their game, awesome! At the least I think it's just interesting. I dont really think counting beats given as opposed to beats taken can give a true reflection of your game

I would say that if you are consistently giving as many or more beats as you take then YES it definitely should be giving a pretty true reflection on your game. Especially over a decent length of time. (I'd even argue that if this is the case that length of time probably doesn't even need to be that long). If you are consistently taking more than you give, that is indicative of a better style but it hardly proves it.

Sorry but... virtually no one starts playing poker with the ability to immediately move on with no emotional consequences from bad beats...it's a skill that you need to improve right along with all the others.That is why you should play at limits that wont affect your confidence if these beats happen

Again I don't disagree. This post wasn't about limits, or bankroll management. There are tons and tons of threads on those sorts of topics already. What's your point? Are you saying you've NEVER gotten upset while playing within your bankroll at the donkey who just sucked out on a 2 outer for the third time in the last hour? And if you NEVER have had this happen, are you furthering suggesting that noone should ever experience this?

I'm not trying to argue with you or whatever and for the most part I agree with your statements. The only point I'm making is that your points have nothing to do with my points.

This thread was not meant to be a comprehensive look at dealing with bad beats. It was a single - and I thought interesting - take on one possible way to look at them. My "hit and run" comment (which wasn't directed solely at you I might add) simply meant that your short post reply wasn't 1) very clear ("a result of bad play...." on whose part exactly?) or 2) really on topic. That's it.


I hope you stick around and become a good member here, it's a great forum.




 
Effexor

Effexor

Cardschat Elite
Interesting, but I think this could be problematic. I had a run where I was not winning any 'flips'. Just to make sure it wasn't selective recall, I decided to keep track of every hand that I was aipf. After 35 of these, I had won 4. Yes, 4 of 35. Proof I was running bad. This is where the problem arose though. See, my confidence was shaken so bad that I started to just assume I'd always lose. Then I started to get gun shy, and basically playing with scared money which ended up being a self fulfilling prophecy.

In your example, if you can maintain the mindset that getting it in good is proof that you are playing well, and that will bolster your confidence, then this would be a good thing. If on the other hand, it kills your confidence like my keeping track of flips did, then it would be best not to do.

Lets say you end the day with the score of 0 (wins) to 5 (suckouts). Are you going to think "It's ok, I'm playing good so it'll turn around", or will you look at the loss of xxx buyins and think "I can't beat these lucky sobs".
 
R

RamDen

Rising Star
I'm not trying to argue with you or whatever and for the most part I agree with your statements. The only point I'm making is that your points have nothing to do with my points.

This thread was not meant to be a comprehensive look at dealing with bad beats. It was a single - and I thought interesting - take on one possible way to look at them. My "hit and run" comment (which wasn't directed solely at you I might add) simply meant that your short post reply wasn't 1) very clear ("a result of bad play...." on whose part exactly?) or 2) really on topic. That's it.


I hope you stick around and become a good member here, it's a great forum.

i am not trying to argue with you either my friend but i do think that (1)before you can define what a bad beat really is you need to understand (not aimed at you personally) that you need to look at the hands which you think are bad beats (not just the ones you lose) and see if you could have played them any better than you did,a bad beat could come about because either player played the hand wrong and (2) If you play above the limits you feel comfortable with is this affecting your decision making therefore this would tie in with point 1 because you are probly not playing your A game

Oh BTW
You know what they say about folk who write in green ink :D
 
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Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
i am not trying to argue with you either my friend but i do think that (1)before you can define what a bad beat really is you need to understand (not aimed at you personally) that you need to look at the hands which you think are bad beats (not just the ones you lose) and see if you could have played them any better than you did,a bad beat could come about because either player played the hand wrong and (2) If you play above the limits you feel comfortable with is this affecting your decision making therefore this would tie in with point 1 because you are probly not playing your A game

Oh BTW
You know what they say about folk who write in green ink :D

i thought bad beats would come out of you playing well not playing bad. Because a bad beat happens when you get your money in ahead and he hits his lowere chance of winning hand. Limits have nothing to do with bad beats, they happen at every limit to good players who get their money in ahead.

But, if you are reffering to bad beats that we give, which i can see how you might be then I have to agree with you :D
 
D

Dayne G.

Guest
I've learned, during every hand, in every session...

I, mentally, ASK for my opponents to suck-out! I WANT them to call bad, go to the river bad, and hit their miracle...

Those beat don't bother me anymore, because I've learned to emotionally want them to happen... when our brain "wants" something, it enjoys when it happens. When you learn to ENJOY beats, you'll never "emotionally tilt" ever again!
 
xxmommaxx

xxmommaxx

Rising Star
Bad Beats

Bad beats used to affect me negatively, but now I try to just say "That's Poker" and accept those bad beats I receive as readily as the bad beats I may dish out from time to time.. We all do it sometimes..having a bad mental poker day...getting fed up with bad cards and going "All in" on the spur of the moment...accidentally hitting the wrong button when your playing more than one table..etc. Bad beats are just part of playing poker and not always a measure of one's "skills" in my opinion.. ;)
 
T

TurningStar

Enthusiast
Hi all...can anyone help this newbie....

Recently I came in 4th in Full Tilt 2700 freeroll and I won/came in top 50 in a poker stars sattelite...

But in my last 3 freerolls i have lost heads up aa vs. 33...aa vs 77 and just now qq vs. 10 10...

I have been short stacked so those were my spots to shove but I just dont get the bad beats each time in a row.

I usually come out raising 5x bb with position and get reraised so I shove and have gotten killed everytime.

I know this is limited info. but does anyone have any tips on my play? Should I be doing anything diff?

P.S. I just started playing super tight and last until mid tourney with my short stack but when I get my hand....
 
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