How many outs do you add for backdoor flush draws?

[c9h13no3]

and if you chose to chase runner runner, then you are the type of player I am looking for to help me increase my BR

*everyone that keeps posting* you're not getting it - these types of draws are only considered in marginal situations where the extra one or two outs will shift a fold to a call, ie adding these outs to like 6 or 8 or whatever outs you already have. Chasing nothing but the backdoor draw is obviously terrible...

God you guys are so brilliant.

Lets take a look at the opening post, shall we?

I don't have Harrington's cash game v1 with me now but if I remember correctly Harrington said you can add two outs for a backdoor flush draw. Isn't this way too much?

This is the first question that he asked. Lets see if anyone answered it.

So in conclusion, count it as one out. The only reason I could see Harrington counting it as two is because you get paid off a lot easier when you do hit them.

I made an attempt, some others commented that they think it counts as one out, but most everyone else is like OMFG U R CHASERZZZ LOLOLOLOLOL!!!~```ONE


I have yet to see a good argument for why Harrington says to count this as 2 outs, and it may matter in a game you're playing. For example:

-----------------------------------

A 200bb deep big stack raises PF. You call and so does a short stack from the big blind.

You have , the flop is

The big stack checks, you check, and the short stack shoves his remaining $ in and shows you his , because he is just that polite.

The pot odds you are being offered are 3:1 (the short stack bet half the pot). You have a back door flush draw, and a draw to a bigger two pair or trips. Thus, if you are counting outs, you have:

5 if you count the draw to two pair or trips (1:4 draw)
6 if you count the back door flush draw as 1 out (3.2:1 draw)
7 if you count the back door flush as 2 outs (2.6:1 draw)

So if we count the back door flush draw as 2 outs, this is a call. If we count it as 1 or 0 outs, then it is a fold.

The actual odds of you winning this hand is 23% (3.3:1), so it should be folded. But you can see how back door outs can make a difference.

Suppose we change the to the . Then this becomes a call as your odds of winning the hand will be 27%, because you'll also have a runner runner straight draw. This will add enough outs to make this hand a call.

If you didn't consider runner runner outs ever in this hand, then you would see this 2.7:1 draw as a 4:1 draw, which obviously it is not. So yeah, if you don't want to add this edge to your game, then I want YOU playing in MY homegame.

 

[switch0723]

Does adding outs for wearing your favorite shirt count, too ?? ...

:rofl:

 

[shano_88]

what about backdoor straight draws?

 

[c9h13no3]

That's a bit trickier, because not all of your straight cards on the turn give you an open ended straight draw. But in general, I'd count them as 1 out as well, especially if you're deep stacked. If you're not deep, then I'd probably count all of your runner runner outs as just 1 out together.

If you & your opponent are deep stacked, these runner runner outs, combined with some other outs your opponent won't see coming, can really make for a very favorable situation.

 

[aceholn1]

tricky ......best bet count as one......okeydokey