have to be nit to win at microstake?

[Ezekiel162]

Next is to decide which is really more important, building your roll or trying to outplay people as often as possible in order to stroke your ego. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to have ego at the micros. Even if you're crushing them, all you have to do is move up a few levels, and suddenly you're ordinary or even fishy.

Thanx for mentioning this. I'll keep this in mind because I've been attempting to move up to nl (the pace of limit is starting to "effact my snaity". lol...) In the end it is about building that BR... +1

 

[puke]

I know I can value bet them. But they are not that stupid, they are really not just calling station. They will fold if they have nothing. But if they have a dr they will call and they know I will pay them when they make that draw.
And sometimes they play aggressive, push me to fold. If I keep calling with overcard, usually I will find they have one sm pair.
They are not easy to make profit, you lose one big meanwhilet only can earn less each time.

They're only a problem if you make them one by continuing to bet into them in situations where you know they'll call. They're actually a significant source of profit once you learn to value town them.

 

[Ezekiel162]

I know I can value bet them. But they are not that stupid, they are really not just calling stations. They will fold if they have nothing. But if they have a dr they will call and they know I will pay them when they make that draw.
And sometimes they play aggressive, push me to fold. If I keep calling with overcard, usually I will find they have one sm pair.
They are not easy to make profit, you lose one big meanwhilet only can earn less each time.

Good points... I think she was this type playing at the table... I've been replaying the whole game for that table and it certainly seems like it... They say women have a better head for cards. I believe it...

 

[GWU73]

This will sound obviouse, but play the player. If you are playing vs. a caller, do not bluff. If opponent is weak and folds many flops play aggressive and steal more. If players are unknown, assume they aren't ever folding top pair and do not play a big pot without a big hand. focus on value betting vs calling stations. Limit your aggregation if you are playing against multiple callers to avoid the schooling effect.

At very low stakes you can bet more and get called, so raising bigger with your best hands pre flop will amplify most opponents mistakes. I used to raise 8 to10BB pre flop and bet 1/2 stacks on the flop with AA and a few other hands at $10NL and get a caller who would fold to an all in on the turn.

I I noticed that at 25nl I could bet less and elicit more folds post flop but overall the play was pretty bad. Cbetting became more profitable. At 50nl the game played more like the poker books described, so bluffing in good spots and 3betting light gained value. In short there seem to he more callers at the lower stakes so sophisticated plays rarely worked.

 

[TheKAAHK]

I know I can value bet them. But they are not that stupid, they are really not just calling station. They will fold if they have nothing. But if they have a dr they will call and they know I will pay them when they make that draw.
And sometimes they play aggressive, push me to fold. If I keep calling with overcard, usually I will find they have one sm pair.
They are not easy to make profit, you lose one big meanwhilet only can earn less each time.

They are that stupid:

pokerstars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: $5.45
SB: $1.60
Hero (BB): $15.00
UTG: $2.19
MP: $2.49 (54/0 over 122 hands)
CO: $4.98

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 2d Jd

fold, MP calls $0.05, fold, fold, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.15, 3 players) 2h 8s 7s
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $0.05, fold, Hero calls $0.05

Turn: ($0.25, 2 players) Ts
Hero checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

River: ($0.75, 2 players) 6c
Hero checks, MP bets $0.45, Hero raises to $1.10, fold

Hero wins $1.58


The thing to remember that even though all fish are stupid, they are not all stupid in the same way. This is where observation is key. There was another player at the table playing 45/2 who would c/c with overs, any pair or draw. I'd never take this line against him with bottom pair. But with the Villain in the hh, he was the "if they check to me I have to bet" type that would fold to pretty much any resistance.

You don't have to be a nit, you just have to really be paying attention if you want to play properly post flop against fish. Make notes on what kinds of hands they like to call with / raise with / what boards they fold to. Once you get a handle on that, then it's easy to exploit them when you get them isolated.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

This will sound obviouse, but play the player. If you are playing vs. a caller, do not bluff. If opponent is weak and folds many flops play aggressive and steal more. If players are unknown, assume they aren't ever folding top pair and do not play a big pot without a big hand. focus on value betting vs calling stations. Limit your aggregation if you are playing against multiple callers to avoid the schooling effect.

At very low stakes you can bet more and get called, so raising bigger with your best hands pre flop will amplify most opponents mistakes. I used to raise 8 to10BB pre flop and bet 1/2 stacks on the flop with AA and a few other hands at $10NL and get a caller who would fold to an all in on the turn.

I I noticed that at 25nl I could bet less and elicit more folds post flop but overall the play was pretty bad. Cbetting became more profitable. At 50nl the game played more like the poker books described, so bluffing in good spots and 3betting light gained value. In short there seem to he more callers at the lower stakes so sophisticated plays rarely worked.

You can't really generalize what stakes you play to stakes at other sites. Average level of play is most dependent on site and stake level. At Merge, I'm working on 4NL and feel like I'll be okay with moving up to 10NL in the near future. At BetOnline, play is LOLbad, and I have played up to 25NL, seeing huge fish everywhere. The only reason I don't play there more often is because they don't support the software I use.

But what level you play at is not the only factor. Which site you go to is huge also.

 

[Ezekiel162]

...You don't have to be a nit, you just have to really be paying attention if you want to play properly post flop against fish. Make notes on what kinds of hands they like to call with / raise with / what boards they fold to. Once you get a handle on that, then it's easy to exploit them when you get them isolated...

I like this. I think this may be where my problem lies. I try to pay close attention to the stats but in doing so I think I've neglected scrutinizing individual player tendencies on certain types of boards/streets... I'll make my own notes more specific as to betting patterns & such instead of using the GUIs simple labelings. I think this might help me, esp with ring games... ty...

 

[puke]

I am not sure if you play 6max or FR. The player that I refer to will not call your big bet. They are not that easy to beat.

This will sound obviouse, but play the player. If you are playing vs. a caller, do not bluff. If opponent is weak and folds many flops play aggressive and steal more. If players are unknown, assume they aren't ever folding top pair and do not play a big pot without a big hand. focus on value betting vs calling stations. Limit your aggregation if you are playing against multiple callers to avoid the schooling effect.

At very low stakes you can bet more and get called, so raising bigger with your best hands pre flop will amplify most opponents mistakes. I used to raise 8 to10BB pre flop and bet 1/2 stacks on the flop with AA and a few other hands at $10NL and get a caller who would fold to an all in on the turn.

I I noticed that at 25nl I could bet less and elicit more folds post flop but overall the play was pretty bad. Cbetting became more profitable. At 50nl the game played more like the poker books described, so bluffing in good spots and 3betting light gained value. In short there seem to he more callers at the lower stakes so sophisticated plays rarely worked.

 

[c9h13no3]

You dont have to be a nit to make money, but its easier to play postflop when you start with good hands preflop.

 

[puke]

Maybe not for me. I have been broken today finally.
I will start again. If this time it does not work, I will try to get a coach

You dont have to be a nit to make money, but its easier to play postflop when you start with good hands preflop.

 

[Arjonius]

I know I can value bet them. But they are not that stupid, they are really not just calling station. They will fold if they have nothing. But if they have a dr they will call and they know I will pay them when they make that draw.
And sometimes they play aggressive, push me to fold. If I keep calling with overcard, usually I will find they have one sm pair.
They are not easy to make profit, you lose one big meanwhilet only can earn less each time.

All calling stations are not the same, which means you shouldn't play them the same. Some tend only to call with made hands, while others will also do so with draws. If you're not differentiating between these two types, the sooner you begin, the better.

And calling stations will seldom get aggressive with small pairs. If they did, they wouldn't be calling stations. So justifying your play on the basis that some of them will do it occasionally is counter-productive. Play them on the basis of what they do most of the time, which means you'll act appropriately most of the time.

 

[Arjonius]

I am a little reluctant to switch to FR. I know if I play tight I can be profit. But it is lack of change. I am kind like to apply more strategys. And I play 6max for so long。
I am really not reconciled.

Look at what you're saying. You know you can be profitable playing tight at FR, but you're reluctant, in part because you want to use more strategy.

The seemingly obvious implication is that it's more important to you to use strategy (even if you don't win) than to make profit.

It looks like you have FPS. You're certainly allowed to think this way. Personally, I'd rather win. IMO, playing ABC and winning seems like a far better strategy than making plays and losing.

 

[TheBowlBoy]

^^^This.

Tbh, this guys threads are starting to get old. He asks for help, he gets tons of great advice and then makes an excuse as to why he can't follow the great advice.

Tighten up, move down a level and everything else people have suggested or quit poker imo.

Its like a crack head that claims he really wants to get clean so you're like 'ok lets take you to rehab' and then he's like 'nah, I just don't think rehab is for me'.

 

[okeedokalee]

Look at what you're saying. You know you can be profitable playing tight at FR, but you're reluctant, in part because you want to use more strategy.

The seemingly obvious implication is that it's more important to you to use strategy (even if you don't win) than to make profit.

It looks like you have FPS. You're certainly allowed to think this way. Personally, I'd rather win. IMO, playing ABC and winning seems like a far better strategy than making plays and losing.

Agree, strategy is wasted at micro levels.Play to the conditions, sit tight and when you get something worth playing, use it for full value.:marchmell

 

[puke]

But if I play abc How should I practice my strategy.
Anyway thank you for giving me a good suggestion.

Now I have a good idea. I can play the FR with tight strategy and meanwhile still play 6max. Then maybe I can get a balance between profit and practice

Look at what you're saying. You know you can be profitable playing tight at FR, but you're reluctant, in part because you want to use more strategy.

The seemingly obvious implication is that it's more important to you to use strategy (even if you don't win) than to make profit.

It looks like you have FPS. You're certainly allowed to think this way. Personally, I'd rather win. IMO, playing ABC and winning seems like a far better strategy than making plays and losing.

 

[puke]

First of all, Everyone's suggestion is useful. And I already get some inspiration. Everyone can have some struggle. If you do not want to give advice You can leave this thread.

^^^This.

Tbh, this guys threads are starting to get old. He asks for help, he gets tons of great advice and then makes an excuse as to why he can't follow the great advice.

Tighten up, move down a level and everything else people have suggested or quit poker imo.

Its like a crack head that claims he really wants to get clean so you're like 'ok lets take you to rehab' and then he's like 'nah, I just don't think rehab is for me'.

 

[Arjonius]

But if I play abc How should I practice my strategy.
Anyway thank you for giving me a good suggestion.

Now I have a good idea. I can play the FR with tight strategy and meanwhile still play 6max. Then maybe I can get a balance between profit and practice

You're not actually talking about strategy. Strategy is an overall approach or plan. You're talking about making plays, which is basically tactics.

Optimizing your strategy includes improving your understanding not just of what tactics are available, but also of what conditions make using each of them appropriate. So for example, it's easy to know what a squeeze is. But understanding what considerations are favorable vs unfavorable for squeezing is **far** more important than merely practicing the action of squeezing.

Ask yourself this. What have you actually learned from your losing practice? It should be that you try too many plays in situations that are unfavorable, which is why these plays lose overall.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

You're not actually talking about strategy. Strategy is an overall approach or plan. You're talking about making plays, which is basically tactics.

Optimizing your strategy includes improving your understanding not just of what tactics are available, but also of what conditions make using each of them appropriate. So for example, it's easy to know what a squeeze is. But understanding what considerations are favorable vs unfavorable for squeezing is **far** more important than merely practicing the action of squeezing.

Ask yourself this. What have you actually learned from your losing practice? It should be that you try too many plays in situations that are unfavorable, which is why these plays lose overall.

^This

I understand most of the reasons why we might 4-bet light in or out of position, and which players to do it against. But I also play at $4NL. If I 4-bet light, I'm going to lose money, because that is NOT the place to "make moves."

Believe me, until you stop considering yourself a superstar at the table, and understand that you just need to be better than the people at your table, you will not be making maximum profit. When ego plays with poker, bad things happen.

 

[puke]

I think I already know that use tactics carfully. And I already give up a lot of tactic which I know is not suitable for me at least at this level.
I still make mistake. The frustration is that I think I make less and less mistake, but I still can not win. They always said it is hard to be beaten in this micro level. But I feel only I make almost no mistake then I can win.

ps: I made few mistakes but every time it is in a big pot. Maybe other people only make many mistakes cost small.I will try to fix it the following day

You're not actually talking about strategy. Strategy is an overall approach or plan. You're talking about making plays, which is basically tactics.

Optimizing your strategy includes improving your understanding not just of what tactics are available, but also of what conditions make using each of them appropriate. So for example, it's easy to know what a squeeze is. But understanding what considerations are favorable vs unfavorable for squeezing is **far** more important than merely practicing the action of squeezing.

Ask yourself this. What have you actually learned from your losing practice? It should be that you try too many plays in situations that are unfavorable, which is why these plays lose overall.

 

[acky100]

Post hands in the HA section, only way you're gonna spot these big mistakes by repeatedly doing that. Nothing else needs to be said /thread

 

[puke]

Yes I will keep do it

Post hands in the HA section, only way you're gonna spot these big mistakes by repeatedly doing that. Nothing else needs to be said /thread

 

[Shwiggler]

Maybe not for me. I have been broken today finally.
I will start again. If this time it does not work, I will try to get a coach

Have you taken a look at Leak Buster? You may want to run through this before you get a coach. It's a lot cheaper, and as long as you put in the time and have a large enough sample size, it will find your leaks, point you towards what you should focus on correcting, and give you good training content to help you fix the issues.

 

[puke]

Ye,actually I am considering to do it. One thing I am concerned is if it will offer different advice for microstakes. As I found if the static I learned is not fit for micro level. I am not sure if leak buster do the same thing for different level.
If I got a coach I can only choose someone specialty at micro level

Have you taken a look at Leak Buster? You may want to run through this before you get a coach. It's a lot cheaper, and as long as you put in the time and have a large enough sample size, it will find your leaks, point you towards what you should focus on correcting, and give you good training content to help you fix the issues.

 

[forsakenone]

You don't have to be a nit to win at 10nl. I am LAG sometimes playing as loose as 35/28 and def crushing 10nl. but mostly I play something like 28/19.

I think I know where you go wrong.

First, don't play stars, but I don't think you do, second, don't play too many tables (and I know you do so otherwise you wouldn't be loosing 70$ in 1 day), do 4 tables tops, I used to do the same mistake.

make loads of notes on people, marks as well, don't do anything stupid

don't get involved too often with the regs, makes sure you have fish on the table, I know it is sexy to 3bet or 4bet bluff regs, but that is not what makes you the money, you play a level where there are plenty of fish, choose your tables wisely, and if you can't find 4 playable tables play 2 or 1 if necessary.

also, go to your tracker and post some stats on this thread so we can evaluate, I think we can find some leaks in your game.

so, post some stats, as many as you can in here, also don't make the mistake of moving to full ring, it is a nit fest.

 

[alaskabill]

To add to what others have already said, quit trying to make fancy plays against bad, nonthinking players. Here is all that you have to do:

Preflop play tight out of position and open up when in the cutoff or on the button.

Post flop: Three rules, as taught by Balugawhale along with many others

1. Valuebet your good hands. You have to get paid when you make a hand, no slowplaying just bet your damn hand.

2. Don't bluff at the microstakes. Bad players number one flaw is calling too much. If you bluff they will look you up with almost anything because that is what they do. Of course you will still c-bet a ton of flops but if you haven't improved by the turn bail out. They aren't going to fold to your barrels often enough to be profitable.

3. Don't pay off the fish. When the guy who has been checking and calling you suddenly starts firing back at you he isn't bluffing. Make the BalugaWhale theorem part of your thinking. Any time you are holding a top pair hand and you get raised on the turn reevaluate. Most of the time your pair is no good and you simply need to fold.

Don't be fancy. Follow the above rules at 6max or full ring and you will make money. Poker isn't about how many sick bluffs that you can run or what kind of clever lines you know how to take, its about figuring out what it takes to make money. At the microstakes fancy, "advanced" play is usually losing play.

I'd lay 10-1 you won't take this advice.