*Don't Touch* Oreo's Cash Game Grind

[duggs]

KK i find a fold on river, sizing is so yucky,

AK i obv call river but im much less happy about it due to sizing on the river,

QQ, im fine with the line, i mean we should be folding some stuff on flop, some on turn and some on river. this is such a weird board for our range distribution, i guess we basically have TT+ AQs+ utg? if so its going to suck fighting back v him on this board assuming he flats all pairs

 

[or3o1990]

I guess I just wasn't a believer with the KK.

With AK I would have folded against an unknown or tighter player but against this guy and with that sizing it stunk of a missed draw. He probably would have made a similar bet had he missed.

As I'm looking at it again I guess it's not so bad because the turn wasn't a blank. At that point I'm only ahead of the overpairs he would play this way.

 

[or3o1990]

Sets and two pairs just bet here right? I kind of have the feeling that he just flopped it or should I just have shoved the flop?



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 24.39, PFR: 21.95, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, hands: 41)
MP: 137.05 BB (VPIP: 25.64, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP+1: 81 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP+2: 195.65 BB (VPIP: 29.27, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
CO: 97 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
Hero (BTN): 119.3 BB
SB: 34.8 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BB: 112.35 BB (VPIP: 17.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 41)
UTG: 112.15 BB (VPIP: 17.50, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:heart: T:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB raises to 12 BB, Hero calls 9 BB, fold

Flop: (27 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: K:club: T:club:
BB checks, Hero bets 17 BB, BB raises to 45 BB, Hero calls 28 BB

Turn: (117 BB, 2 players) 9:spade:
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (117 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:
BB bets 55.35 BB, fold

BB wins 169.35 BB

 

[duggs]

x/r as the 3bettor on a KQTcc board? so weird, i just get it in on the flop,

 

[vinylspiros]

GII on flop.aye

 

[or3o1990]

It did seem strange and it threw me off a bit. Should have just shoved but I've been playing like sheet lately.

 

[or3o1990]

Did he flop it?

iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
Hero (UTG+1): 124.1 BB
MP: 102.3 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 36.36, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
CO: 99.4 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 4.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: 105.3 BB (VPIP: 11.54, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
BB: 156.31 BB (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 45)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:spade: Q:spade:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) A:diamond: T:heart: Q:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, BB raises to 12 BB, Hero calls 7 BB

Turn: (30.5 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
BB bets 16 BB, Hero calls 16 BB

River: (62.5 BB, 2 players) 4:club:
BB bets 25 BB, Hero ?

 

[TimovieMan]

Call. We beat AT/QT and a whole lot of flush draws. Raising would be very thin, imo. We'd get called by 6 combos of AT, 6 combos of QT, but are behind 3 combos of TT and 16 combos of KJ.

OTOH, KJ would 3-bet/shove, so raise/fold is perhaps in order?

 

[MinhANguyen]

1010 hand I think folding was good. Check-raises in 3-bet pots are always nutted hands, and nobody plays KQs/AK like that. Especially given that he was the PFR and checked, he always has it here. He either flopped the straight with AJs or was trapping with KK/QQ. Think about it. What do you beat? Nothing really. Honestly, I think I would have checked back the flop. Bet/check/bet is also fine. He's either trapping, giving up and is drawing dead vs us, or looking to pay off/value bet only two streets with something like AK/AA. And maybe K10s/Q10s if he 3-bets light.

AQs I'm calling but not happy about it. If he actually bombed the turn for 75%+PSB, I'd actually fold. Nobody's bluffing there ever or value betting that large without the nuts or with worse when this board just smashes your range, and you will be calling to lose your entire stack or chop. I'm not even sure AQ check-raises flop. And bombing turn and river is just spew. What I've noticed is that people's bet sizings OTT/OTR usually give away the strength of their hand. Very often people with KJ would bomb the turn and river. Here, it looks like he might have AQ/A10/QT a decent amount of the time, is scared, and doesn't really know what you have to be calling down.

 

[Figaroo2]

AQ I agree to a crying call getting better than
3-1. With those odds we should be calling even if we only put him on AT. As he just called in the BB he could have QT AQ JTs J9s T9s and maybe the odd AJ or other weaker flush draws if he's donkish.
Kj is most likely of course but folding looks like a mathematical mistake.

 

[or3o1990]

With the 10 10 I did decide that I didn't beat very much by the river. His line was super confusing though and I think I should have just jammed the flop because with the board being so draw heavy and right in both of our ranges I'm not understanding why anyone would check a set or two pair or even a straight on the flop. Unless of course he knew I was raising when he checked I suppose.

With the AQ I did manage a call. If he'd made it larger than 1/2 pot I probably would have folded. I honestly think I could have let it go because this player hadn't done anything aggressive like this prior and he was the type that probably isn't following through with a triple barrel bluff with missed FD or SD. He would play his 10 10's and two pairs like this I think though. As well as his KJ's, which of course he had lol.

 

[or3o1990]

iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 99.5 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
SB: 135.85 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 80)
BB: 85.25 BB (VPIP: 43.94, PFR: 12.12, 3Bet Preflop: 8.57, Hands: 66)
UTG: 110.7 BB (VPIP: 59.76, PFR: 8.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 82)
UTG+1: 19.5 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
MP+1: 188.55 BB (VPIP: 29.17, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 48)
Hero (MP+2): 100 BB
CO: 92.65 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: A:club:

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB, fold

Flop: (12.5 BB, 2 players) 5:club: 9:heart: J:club:
UTG bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, UTG calls 5 BB

Turn: (30.5 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
UTG checks, Hero bets 16.25 BB, UTG calls 16.25 BB

River: (63 BB, 2 players) K:diamond:
UTG bets 31.5 BB, Hero?

 

[MinhANguyen]

Call flop. Folding is also fine. I don't expect much fold equity from a raise since the board smashes a limp-calling range, and he's never going anywhere when he gets min raised. Turn is a check back for same reason ^^. River probably a fold. Expect to see KJ/QT here a lot.

 

[or3o1990]

I was kind of tilted by this point in my session and I ended up calling the river. He had Q 10.

I think it's safe to say that my heater is officially over. -10 BI over the last 13k hands.

 

[Figaroo2]

AK hand. You raise him preflop and on the flop and you bet the turn and still he wants to donk into you on the river. You did a fine job of repping aces and he's still saying he likes his hand on the end. He's saying he can beat AA so our 1 pair hand is never good.
Looking at his stats though he does look fishy so I think it's wrong to assume we are always beaten. But he does look passive right, so the river lead looks like value.
Sorry to hear you're on a downturn , this is where you have to stay strong mentally . It's all part of the game.

 

[or3o1990]

AK hand. You raise him preflop and on the flop and you bet the turn and still he wants to donk into you on the river. You did a fine job of repping aces and he's still saying he likes his hand on the end. He's saying he can beat AA so our 1 pair hand is never good.
Looking at his stats though he does look fishy so I think it's wrong to assume we are always beaten. But he does look passive right, so the river lead looks like value.
Sorry to hear you're on a downturn , this is where you have to stay strong mentally . It's all part of the game.

Yeah, that was a fold for sure. I've been running into that line somewhat often lately. A player will float the flop and turn and donk the river. I've been shown a couple of busted draws on the end this week.

It is what it is. I've just got to keep grinding and try to play my best.

 

[or3o1990]

I wanted to fold here but folding a set seemed bad. Anyone get away from this?


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 24.15 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
UTG+1: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: 93.55 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
MP+1: 87.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
MP+2: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (CO): 113.5 BB
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 133.2 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 8)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:heart: 9:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) T:heart: Q:spade: 9:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, SB calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
SB checks, Hero bets 13 BB, SB raises to 26 BB, Hero raises to 51 BB, SB raises to 125.2 BB, Hero calls 54.5 BB

River: (228 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:

Hero mucks 9:heart: 9:club: (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 52%, Flop 30%, Turn 20%)
SB shows K:spade: J:spade: (Straight, King High)
(Pre 48%, Flop 70%, Turn 80%)
SB wins 244.7 BB

 

[or3o1990]

And again. Kind of hard to put the 9/10 on 9 10 lol. He had been such a nit big pairs made the most sense but obv not folding here.



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102.65 BB (VPIP: 31.58, PFR: 17.54, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 58)
SB: 26.5 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BB: 135.12 BB (VPIP: 42.37, PFR: 11.86, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 59)
UTG: 174.75 BB (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
Hero (UTG+1): 214.85 BB
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP+1: 169.8 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
CO: 99.4 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:club:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) 7:club: J:club: Q:heart:
Hero bets 7 BB, fold, CO calls 7 BB

Turn: (24.5 BB, 2 players) K:heart:
Hero bets 17 BB, CO raises to 38 BB, Hero raises to 125.26 BB, CO calls 51.4 BB

River: (203.3 BB, 2 players) 8:club:

Hero shows K:diamond: K:club: (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 78%, Flop 77%, Turn 23%)
CO shows 9:spade: T:spade: (Straight, King High)
(Pre 22%, Flop 23%, Turn 77%)
Hero wins 35.86 BB
CO wins 200.3 BB

 

[duggs]

I wanted to fold here but folding a set seemed bad. Anyone get away from this?


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 24.15 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
UTG+1: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: 93.55 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
MP+1: 87.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
MP+2: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (CO): 113.5 BB
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 133.2 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 8)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9<font color='red'>♥</font> 9<font color='black'>♣</font>

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) T<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♠</font> 9<font color='black'>♠</font>
SB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, SB calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='black'>♣</font>
SB checks, Hero bets 13 BB, SB raises to 26 BB, Hero raises to 51 BB, SB raises to 125.2 BB, Hero calls 54.5 BB

River: (228 BB, 2 players) 4<font color='red'>♥</font>

Hero mucks 9<font color='red'>♥</font> 9<font color='black'>♣</font> (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 52%, Flop 30%, Turn 20%)
SB shows K<font color='black'>♠</font> J<font color='black'>♠</font> (Straight, King High)
(Pre 48%, Flop 70%, Turn 80%)
SB wins 244.7 BB

well you can't turn, raise/fold you are easily getting the correct price here, I'm fine with the line, but I'm just calling turn years before i r/f the turn.

 

[duggs]

And again. Kind of hard to put the 9/10 on 9 10 lol. He had been such a nit big pairs made the most sense but obv not folding here.

if he is a nit he only has 3 combos of 9T on turn and 1 or 2 combos of AT, but id expect KJs JQs here etc often, sometimes even smaller sets. can't really call turn with a thousand draws out there, looks fine to me

 

[or3o1990]

Yeah, I've kind of been running into the tip tops of people ranges lately. Nothing I can do about that though.

I probably should have just called and played a river with 99. Because I was getting a good price to draw and I don't beat much that wants to GII here. Just some two pair combo's and very weakly played over pairs.

 

[xdeucesx]

I think KK is fine fwiw. Duggs already broke it down well though

 

[or3o1990]

Yeah, just unlucky I guess..


I kind of butchered this one. I'm fine with the flop but I probably should have cc turn right?



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 147.27 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 33)
UTG: 117.1 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 29.17, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 24)
UTG+1: 26.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP: 64 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
Hero (MP+1): 99.5 BB
MP+2: 96.05 BB (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
CO: 260.61 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
BTN: 113.3 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 20)
SB: 50.94 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4:spade: 4:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, MP+2 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 2:heart: 4:heart: 9:club:
Hero bets 5 BB, MP+2 raises to 15 BB, Hero raises to 40 BB, MP+2 calls 25 BB

Turn: (87.5 BB, 2 players) 7:heart:
Hero bets 56.5 BB, MP+2 calls 53.05 BB

River: (193.6 BB, 2 players) T:heart:

Hero shows 4:spade: 4:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 66%, Flop 66%, Turn 23%)
MP+2 shows A:heart: 3:heart: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 34%, Flop 34%, Turn 77%)
Hero wins 3.45 BB
MP+2 wins 190.6 BB

 

[xdeucesx]

I mean tbh, he only has 56.5 bbs behind w/87.5 already in the pot. With a 2/3 PSB left, I'm probably just jamming it. Maybe you can c/c, but I'm more worried about like, TT+ or 9x or 22 just shutting down too. All those hands probably just call off a jam on turn since it's so tiny still.

Idk, I think it's just one of those spots that like, it honestly doesn't matter. I hate to x/f with so much already in the pot, so I probably just jam. This kind of spot won't have too much of an effect on our bottom line imo, just bc the difference between x/c or jam is probably minimal in terms of ev.

 

[or3o1990]

All of that makes sense. I suppose it is more likely that hands I beat would shut down than it is that they're folding to that turn bet.


Can you guys make this fold?

I figured pre he's 10 10+ and AQ+ here. On the flop I mostly discount the tens. I block the crap out of AK and loose to everything else. But with his tiny flop bet, his turn check and then a normalish river bet It started to feel a lot like AQ. On the bright side I could have definitely lost more.



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 103.6 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 8.77, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 2.17, Hands: 114)
UTG: 458.4 BB (VPIP: 67.26, PFR: 17.70, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 114)
UTG+1: 169.15 BB (VPIP: 53.51, PFR: 8.77, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 114)
MP: 185.75 BB (VPIP: 32.20, PFR: 5.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 59)
Hero (MP+1): 99.5 BB
MP+2: 93.45 BB (VPIP: 38.60, PFR: 14.04, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 57)
CO: 183.8 BB (VPIP: 13.21, PFR: 5.66, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 106)
BTN: 137.1 BB (VPIP: 14.04, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 114)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

fold, fold, MP raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, MP+2 raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (24.5 BB, 2 players) 6♣ 5♥ J♦
Hero checks, MP+2 bets 8.25 BB, Hero calls 8.25 BB

Turn: (41 BB, 2 players) 6♦
Hero checks, MP+2 checks

River: (41 BB, 2 players) Q♦
Hero checks, MP+2 bets 24 BB, Hero calls 24 BB

Hero mucks K♦ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes)
(Pre 81%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
MP+2 shows J♥ J♣ (Full House, Jacks full of Sixes)
(Pre 19%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
MP+2 wins 86 BB