*Don't Touch* Oreo's Cash Game Grind

[vinylspiros]

But it was sooted haha! 93 aside that has to be the most losing way to play a flush draw.

he had a double gutter and a FD on the turn. his call isnt as bad as it looks.it is still bad though. im probably calling this turn the way im committed by this point and stuff.

 

[or3o1990]

I didn't notice, nice catch.

 

[vinylspiros]

I played a similar hand heads up with a double gutter and called a turn raise that i shouldnt have and got rewarded. Your lucky this didnt happen to you. lol

pokerstars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($55.73)
Hero (BB) ($52.92)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4

, 6

SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2) 5

, 8

, Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks

Turn: ($2) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $5.77, SB raises to $18.50, Hero calls $12.73

River: ($39) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $33.42 (All-In), SB calls $33.42

Total pot: $105.84 | Rake: $0.50

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had 2

, 2

(three of a kind, twos).
Hero had 4

, 6

(straight, six high).
Outcome: Hero won $105.34

 

[or3o1990]

Sick dude. Well after he reraised you on the turn you knew you have the implied odds to get the rest in when you hit. Do you play a lot of HU?

Yeah, I've been running pretty nicely above EV for the first time in the last 30k hands which is cool but I still feel like a bum when I GII bad. And I have and sucked out a handful of times this week. I had to shut it down an hour early last night because even though I was winning I was clearly slipping below my B game.

 

[or3o1990]

This guy was a bit of a nit. I didn't expect him to fold a Q or KK+ but i figured I'm ahead of some of his Ax and that I could possibly shake him off of some of his second pairs.


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 104.1 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (MP+1): 111 BB
MP+2: 110 BB (VPIP: 24.29, PFR: 4.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 70)
CO: 194.07 BB (VPIP: 25.37, PFR: 7.46, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 67)
BTN: 120.5 BB (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 1.82, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 55)
SB: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 149.75 BB (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)
UTG+1: 92.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3:diamond: 3:heart:

fold, fold, MP calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, MP+2 raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP calls 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) Q:spade: 4:diamond: 4:club:
MP checks, Hero checks, MP+2 bets 5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 16 BB, MP+2 calls 11 BB

Turn: (42.5 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
Hero bets 21.25 BB, fold

Hero mucks 3:diamond: 3:heart: (Full House, Fours full of Threes)

Hero wins 61.65 BB

 

[Aces2w1n]

Gj hard to get bluffs if vill is wider

 

[or3o1990]

Seems like a trivial fold imo.


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 20.18 BB (VPIP: 40.43, PFR: 10.64, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
UTG+1: 131.94 BB (VPIP: 32.50, PFR: 27.50, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 40)
MP: 28.5 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
MP+1: 51.25 BB (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 21.74, PFR: 15.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
BTN: 55.15 BB (VPIP: 32.61, PFR: 23.91, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)
SB: 121.54 BB (VPIP: 35.90, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 39)
Hero (BB): 181.55 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:club: A:heart:

UTG calls 1 BB, UTG+1 raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 16.5 BB, fold, UTG+1 calls 13.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (40.5 BB, 2 players) 4:spade: K:heart: Q:club:
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 18 BB, Hero calls 18 BB

Turn: (76.5 BB, 2 players) K:diamond:
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (100.5 BB, 2 players) T:heart:
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 38 BB, fold

UTG+1 wins 135.5 BB

 

[xdeucesx]

Why didn't you bet the flop? Any reasons? Looks like a good flop to bet imo, considering villain is loose and can continue with tons of hands, all that we are ahead of.

 

[or3o1990]

I don't like broadway flops when an utg raiser flats my 3bet and I have aces. My thinking was that I reduce his Ax combos which increases his KQ combos as well as big pair combos. He was opening loose but I don't think he was defending against 3bets particularly loose.

 

[or3o1990]

Took a shot at the 55+5 tonight. I bought a ticket with my poker points. Historically I've never run very well in this tournament and tonight was no different. Can't be mad though..


iPoker - $50+$5|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 35 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BTN: 88.43 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
SB: 46.5 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
Hero (BB): 35.88 BB
UTG: 30.44 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG+1: 47.78 BB (VPIP: 64.52, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
MP: 32.93 BB (VPIP: 32.26, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
MP+1: 66.63 BB (VPIP: 12.90, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 31)
MP+2: 30.69 BB (VPIP: 3.33, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:spade: J:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, SB calls 1.5 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 3 players) 9:diamond: 8:spade: A:club:
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (6 BB, 3 players) 7:diamond:
SB bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 4 BB, SB raises to 44.5 BB, Hero calls 32.88 BB, fold

River: (77.75 BB, 2 players) A:spade:

SB shows 9:club: 9:heart: (Full House, Nines full of Aces)
(Pre 54%, Flop 74%, Turn 23%)
Hero mucks T:spade: J:diamond: (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 46%, Flop 26%, Turn 77%)
SB wins 88.38 BB

 

[vinylspiros]

Took a shot at the 55+5 tonight. I bought a ticket with my poker points. Historically I've never run very well in this tournament and tonight was no different. Can't be mad though..


iPoker - $50+$5|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 35 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BTN: 88.43 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
SB: 46.5 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
Hero (BB): 35.88 BB
UTG: 30.44 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG+1: 47.78 BB (VPIP: 64.52, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
MP: 32.93 BB (VPIP: 32.26, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
MP+1: 66.63 BB (VPIP: 12.90, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 31)
MP+2: 30.69 BB (VPIP: 3.33, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T♠ J♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, SB calls 1.5 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 3 players) 9♦ 8♠ A♣
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (6 BB, 3 players) 7♦
SB bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 4 BB, SB raises to 44.5 BB, Hero calls 32.88 BB, fold

River: (77.75 BB, 2 players) A♠

SB shows 9♣ 9♥ (Full House, Nines full of Aces)
(Pre 54%, Flop 74%, Turn 23%)
Hero mucks T♠ J♦ (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 46%, Flop 26%, Turn 77%)
SB wins 88.38 BB

total cooler bro and very unlucky but, WHY, are we not raising turn ? Do we not want to inflate pot and get more value on the river? Especially with an ace out there and a very wet board versus 2 villains. Theres a big chance that the river can turn into a serious action killer.

 

[Aces2w1n]

I don't like broadway flops when an utg raiser flats my 3bet and I have aces. My thinking was that I reduce his Ax combos which increases his KQ combos as well as big pair combos. He was opening loose but I don't think he was defending against 3bets particularly loose.

AA

I feel exactly the same and the king could b a good card on turn but that ten is devistating if he hadnt already had u crushed.

Sets... i see so many kq or set of k or q... then the ten comes so even aj gets there

We dont beat anything except ak aq and maybe cuz u checked flop he could have medium pp bluffing u now.

But he is betting u very weak and u r priced to call... it looks like you got jj so after underrepping so much u could warrant a call.

Aq would play his way

 

[Figaroo2]

I'm not sure about the flop action in the AA hand either bud. Maybe if he was tight but he's clearly a lag and can be wider than might be expected. QQ and KK don't really fit here preflop.
I'm betting that flop nice and big. If you choose to tangle with a lag you need to stay aggressive yourself it's the only thing they respect. (John's blog entry of a couple of months ago springs to mind).
The King on the turn is about as bad a card as you can get though it would definitely slow me down if he calls a big flop bet. Checking hands over the initiative and gives us no information and I don't like doing that in such a value situation.

 

[or3o1990]

total cooler bro and very unlucky but, WHY, are we not raising turn ? Do we not want to inflate pot and get more value on the river? Especially with an ace out there and a very wet board versus 2 villains. Theres a big chance that the river can turn into a serious action killer.

I didn't raise the turn because I was confident that the btn would reraise it for me. Then I was going to shove if both the sb called.

 

[vinylspiros]

I didn't raise the turn because I was confident that the btn would reraise it for me. Then I was going to shove if both the sb called.

fair enough, sounds like a good plan to me.

But on a sidenote,since there are 3 players in the pot and the flop gets mega wet on the turn with the second diamond coming into play,i wouldnt mind raising this turn as big as possible so i can be sure to GII on river. But yeah, ur line is great too. (just a bit risky of losing value).

 

[or3o1990]

I'm not sure about the flop action in the AA hand either bud. Maybe if he was tight but he's clearly a lag and can be wider than might be expected. QQ and KK don't really fit here preflop.
I'm betting that flop nice and big. If you choose to tangle with a lag you need to stay aggressive yourself it's the only thing they respect. (John's blog entry of a couple of months ago springs to mind).
The King on the turn is about as bad a card as you can get though it would definitely slow me down if he calls a big flop bet. Checking hands over the initiative and gives us no information and I don't like doing that in such a value situation.

I don't totally agree with your generalization of staying aggressive against lag's. His fold to 3bet was 100% along with his fold to c bet. How terrible could it be to let him bet if I think he's folding most hands that we beat immediately or to a second bet ? Also how do KK and QQ not fit preflop? That seems quite optimistic imo. I know it's not always the case but the fact that we have a pair increases the odds he has one. I was thinking, what hands does he have that I can bet and get value from that I'm beating on the flop? AK, AQ(one street)and we block those, KJ(unlikely imo), JJ-8 8(one street), the only real draw is j10 and I'm not giving him much of that.


Obviously I'm not liking the turn and the river is just as bad. I was either being value bet by the near nuts with his sizing or maybe he was bluffing with a pp. 40 hands isn't enough to really know someones bluffing frequencies and it smelled valueish to me so I decided to play it safe. Maybe with the sizing he made it this was a mistake.

 

[or3o1990]

fair enough, sounds like a good plan to me.

But on a sidenote,since there are 3 players in the pot and the flop gets mega wet on the turn with the second diamond coming into play,i wouldnt mind raising this turn as big as possible so i can be sure to GII on river. But yeah, ur line is great too. (just a bit risky of losing value).

I was thinking about raising the turn for sure. The table was splashy af but the risk payed off, until it didn't lol.

 

[vinylspiros]

I was thinking about raising the turn for sure. The table was splashy af but the risk payed off, until it didn't lol.

its rigged i tell you

 

[or3o1990]

lol you might be right.. I put this guy on 68. He never folded so I guess I could have thought maybe 44 but it's nbd.


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 30.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 4.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
Hero (MP): 103.4 BB
MP+1: 114 BB (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 58)
CO: 42.21 BB (VPIP: 24.24, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 66)
BTN: 102 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
SB: 104.8 BB (VPIP: 12.00, PFR: 8.00, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 25)
BB: 103.05 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
UTG: 30 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7:heart: 7:spade:

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) J:heart: 5:club: 7:diamond:
UTG checks, Hero bets 5 BB, MP+1 calls 5 BB, UTG calls 5 BB

Turn: (25.5 BB, 3 players) 4:diamond:
UTG checks, Hero bets 13.75 BB, MP+1 raises to 27.5 BB, fold, Hero calls 13.75 BB

River: (80.5 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
Hero bets 67.9 BB, MP+1 calls 67.9 BB

Hero mucks 7:heart: 7:spade: (Full House, Sevens full of Fours)
(Pre 81%, Flop 97%, Turn 98%)
MP+1 shows 4:spade: 4:club: (Four of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 19%, Flop 3%, Turn 2%)
MP+1 wins 213.3 BB

 

[Figaroo2]

I don't totally agree with your generalization of staying aggressive against lag's. His fold to 3bet was 100% along with his fold to c bet. How terrible could it be to let him bet if I think he's folding most hands that we beat immediately or to a second bet ? Also how do KK and QQ not fit preflop? That seems quite optimistic imo. I know it's not always the case but the fact that we have a pair increases the odds he has one. I was thinking, what hands does he have that I can bet and get value from that I'm beating on the flop? AK, AQ(one street)and we block those, KJ(unlikely imo), JJ-8 8(one street), the only real draw is j10 and I'm not giving him much of that.

Obviously I'm not liking the turn and the river is just as bad. I was either being value bet by the near nuts with his sizing or maybe he was bluffing with a pp. 40 hands isn't enough to really know someones bluffing frequencies and it smelled valueish to me so I decided to play it safe. Maybe with the sizing he made it this was a mistake.

There are still 12 combos of AK AQ which makes them equally as likely as sets of KK QQ.
Preflop I think KK probably 4 bets from a guy with his stats.
QQ fits better but its only 6 combos and with him being that loose I do think he can have KQ KJ and KTs QJs QTs. thats another 44 combos of which we are only losing on the flop to 16 KQ.
In the end it didn't matter as the turn K was the killer.
That blog entry i quoted for playing against LAGS http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/bully-the-bully/

 

[or3o1990]

There are still 12 combos of AK AQ which makes them equally as likely as sets of KK QQ.
Preflop I think KK probably 4 bets from a guy with his stats.
QQ fits better but its only 6 combos and with him being that loose I do think he can have KQ KJ and KTs QJs QTs. thats another 44 combos of which we are only losing on the flop to 16 KQ.
In the end it didn't matter as the turn K was the killer.
That blog entry i quoted for playing against LAGS http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/bully-the-bully/

I don't know why you're so optimistic. A guy with his stats after only 40 hands is just a guy. We don't know a whole lot at this point and if you include the 100% FCb and 3bet how does this affect your read? I'm not giving him Q10 or k10 and QJ and KJ are a serious stretch imo. Why don't you give him any pp but you give him Q10s?

Lets give him the range I perceived and lets just assume that it goes brick, brick. If the big aces and big pairs cancel each other out as you said then we're left with the KQ's and 99-JJ. So is that 16 combo's of KQ even though there are cards on the board? Against the 18 combo's of pairs that we beat it's a very close race at this point. Now of the hands that we beat we get how many bets on average? The only hand that we beat that can even consider calling 3streets is AK and that is unlikely given the preflop action. I think that most of the hands we beat we get one street from.

However, he will bet all of his hands that beat us and all of his second best hands we beat as well as his bluffs all three streets because he's a LAG, right? Then letting him bet is more profitable than betting. And if we don't give him J10 or AJ then there's really no draws to worry about. Also, I think it's easier to get two streets from AQ's if we back-load rather than bet, bet. Why does a flop check seem so bad at this point?

Aces are just that, one pair of aces. I don't think it's bad not to bet given my reasoning. But please correct me if I'm wrong. If I thought he could have all of those other broadway hands then I would agree that it's a mistake but I don't think he has those in his range. As I'm continuing to look it over I'm more so wondering if folding the river was the mistake.

 

[MinhANguyen]

Imo more than fine to check AA on that flop. Can't really get three streets from a worse hand, and also induces bluffs. Hands like AQ/JJ also might look us up if we check flop. Hand WP. Fwiw I almost always check AA on KQx boards.

77 nh. Bad beat. Just wondering, were you check-folding to a river blank? The only value hand we should be beating is 55, and there are a ton of 86s in his range. Maybe some slowplayed JJ too.

 

[or3o1990]

Thanks, that was my thinking on the AA hand. I'll try to pot control on these boards most of the time unless I'm against a loose fish that will stack off light or against someone who isn't folding to 3bets.

I was planning to fold if the board didn't pair because while he was loose and sticky he was not one bit aggressive. His agg% was in the low teens, so when he reraised the turn I figured it was 86. Most people aren't floating 44 lol but his fold to cbet was also in the low teens so that was kind of a misread on my part.

 

[vinylspiros]

i will go to my thread and find an almost identical hand where i had AA on a similar flop and took the exact same line you took. In this particular hand,i think u played the AA fine and you reasoning makes alot of sense to me.

 

[vinylspiros]

take a look at this: kinda similar and i took alot of heat from people saying i played it wrong.


although here AK is really a scary hand hitting villains range. and i am hyperaggro in general but managed to make this snapfold.



https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...damicros-6max-thread-236428/post-2786002.html