Cbetting on the turn - help?

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Smileyphil

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I am working on improving my 6 Max Cash Game play and figure that I probably don't fire the second barrel often enough. I am unsure how to recognise a situation where the villain is just peeling the flop and so we can apply the pressure.

Can anyone give me some advice?

Particularly regarding:
1. Stats (preferably things that don't take forever to converge)
2. Types of flop/turn card.
3. Frequency with which we should turn cbet.
4. Our hand strength and whether that has much affect.
5. Position - More OOP or more IP?
6. If the pot is 3 Bet do we turn cbet more/less?

I feel like I am on the right lines but could use some pointers.

p.s. Assume the situation is that we raised (or 3 Bet) preflop. We're called by one villain. We then cbet 3/4's on the flop and are now looking at the turn. Stacks are roughly 100BB.
p.
 
madtom1337

madtom1337

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Not an expert, but adding what I think so people can tweak what I say too.

1) I'd say comparing "Fold to Flop/C-Bet" with WTSD and "Fold to Turn Bet." Obviously if someone doesn't fold to flop bets much but has a fairly low WTSD and highish fold to turn bet and all else complies, then go for it?

Obviously calling stations are easy enough to identify (high VPIP, low PFR, high WTSD etc.)

2) Aces are typically scare cards on the turn. If the flop comes with two rags, e.g. 33J, and then an A comes on the turn, that could be a nice spot for a second barrell. Or a K, since your opponent is more likely to float with ace-high hands if he has some other sort of draw. The board pairing a medium card might help if your own range includes suited connectors and one-gappers. If the flop comes connected and the one up comes, e.g. 789T, that might be a good spot, since villain may be calling with the T or top pair, and that kind of board may look scary. You can even get decent players to fold good two-pairs and sets on boards like that, but they may float to see if the board pairs on the river, or raise you just to see if you've really got it and to represent it themselves, particularly if you led on the flop.


3&4) Prefer to have some outs, personally I never go further than a flop c-bet with total air. If I've got a strong draw in position and I've c-bet the flop and villain checks the turn, I'll be taking the free river card and making the c-bet look like one of air. Out of position with 9-12 outs I'll be firing a second barrell as a sort of blocking bet, and then even if opponent re-raises, as long as the re-raise isn't huge, hopefully we could be getting the right odds to call. Though I really hate playing draws OOP, I get a bit stuck. Draws as weak as 10 outs can also be used, like a gutshot with 2 overcards, e.g. J9xx when you have KQ. I know we're on about the turn in this thread, but I believe backdoor flush draws count for 2 outs, so when you're pondering over c-betting the flop, with that in mind you might go for it and find yourself with a decent flush draw when the turn brings you another of your suit, so that can be a decent spot to fire again. When you do actually hit these kind of weak semi-bluffs, they pay more easily than obvious draws.

5) More OOP against floaters and with draws, I'd say. People tend to float more with position. When villains check-call (i.e. you're IP), that can often mean draws I think. Bit strange when they do that.

6) In a 3-bet pot with 100BB effective stacks, by the turn there's already 50-60BB in the pot with about 70-80BB in each stack, so if you're firing that second barrell, which will be about another 25-30BB, you're pretty much putting your opponent to a stack decision. You can pretty much rule out set-miners so no need to worry about that, oftentimes it'll be a case of which premium hand is better, depends how laggy the villain is with 3-betting and how floaty he is. Depends on a bit too much to answer this properly without going through a wide array of situations. Mostly depends on 3-betting ranges and position, I'd say.

Yeah, that's about all I can think of... Hope it adds to the discussion...
 
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