AQ Suited?

[TheKid84]

So I was playing in today's Freeroll on bodog, in which I won $1.20 (thanks cardschat ). As every freeroll, towards the beginning of the tournament everyone plays loosey goosey. Towards the end, probably 7 or 8 places before the bubble and everyone pays out, the play noticeably tightens up. I was dealt AQ diamonds in the 5 spot of 9 people, and raise the blind about 3.5 times the BB. The big blind goes all in and the amount was about double what I just put in. I decided to call, and he shows 7's. My AQ doesn't hit, and I lose the hand. It cut about half my chip stack. Two characters decide to rag on me until the next break in how horrible of a call that was on my part and how AQ suited isn't even a good hand at all. I know I'm no where near a pro in skills (nor bank roll for that matter), but honestly, was my play ridiculous? And is AQ suited really a bad hand? I certainly was pleased with the play even though I lost, but those two guys really thought differently. Thoughts?

 

[daxter70]

So I was playing in today's Freeroll on Bodog, in which I won $1.20 (thanks cardschat ). As every freeroll, towards the beginning of the tournament everyone plays loosey goosey. Towards the end, probably 7 or 8 places before the bubble and everyone pays out, the play noticeably tightens up. I was dealt AQ diamonds in the 5 spot of 9 people, and raise the blind about 3.5 times the BB. The big blind goes all in and the amount was about double what I just put in. I decided to call, and he shows 7's. My AQ doesn't hit, and I lose the hand. It cut about half my chip stack. Two characters decide to rag on me until the next break in how horrible of a call that was on my part and how AQ suited isn't even a good hand at all. I know I'm no where near a pro in skills (nor bank roll for that matter), but honestly, was my play ridiculous? And is AQ suited really a bad hand? I certainly was pleased with the play even though I lost, but those two guys really thought differently. Thoughts?

LOL...damn kid..i was just trying to get in ur head..LOL

but i wouldnt be so quick to call with it next time...

and by the way AQ 4 handed at the final table too my KK out...A on the river..for 90% of his stack...oh well

 

[vanquish]

too many stories of people berating others in cardschat freerolls....

 

[daxter70]

too many stories of people berating others in cardschat freerolls....

oh pleeeeez....lol..wasnt so much of a berating as a needling..and i wasnt even in the hand oh..more so to keep my mouth shut right??LOL:icon_sant

 

[TheKid84]

LOL...damn kid..i was just trying to get in ur head..LOL

but i wouldnt be so quick to call with it next time...

and by the way AQ 4 handed at the final table too my KK out...A on the river..for 90% of his stack...oh well

Ha well played... I was thinking that afterwards but then someone else chimed in along, forget who. I was also playing in two other games, so my mind wasn't set too well. Congrats gettin into my head

 

[ph_il]

I was dealt AQ diamonds in the 5 spot of 9 people, and raise the blind about 3.5 times the BB. The big blind goes all in and the amount was about double what I just put in. I decided to call, and he shows 7's. My AQ doesn't hit, and I lose the hand.

No, you didnt play it wrong at all. To fold here would've been a worse play than calling and losing the hand. Unless you put the BB on AA or KK or possibly even QQ, I dont see how you could not call with this situation.

At best/worse, villain is shoving with an under pair. You're getting 2:1 odds (slightly better actually) on a coin-flip situation which is exactly what you need to call. More than likely, though, villain is shoving with weaker hand than you are holding QJ, K10, AJ or worse, etc. So your AQ crushes his shoving range. So, given this..its a snap call for me. Also, given the fact that its the later stages of the tournament, these are the opportunities I look for to increase my stack, knock someone out, and move up.

Good call, IMO.

 

[The Shrog]

Once you've already made the initial 3.5x raise, like Philthy said, you're getting the right price for a flip.

On a side note, I wouldn't take others' opinions of your play too seriously. Play your game, and if you need advice on a hand, hit the forum instead of listening to people rag on you.

 

[daxter70]

Once you've already made the initial 3.5x raise, like Philthy said, you're getting the right price for a flip.

On a side note, I wouldn't take others' opinions of your play too seriously. Play your game, and if you need advice on a hand, hit the forum instead of listening to people rag on you.

OK LET ME SUM THIS UP!!

i was needling him about A trash and AQ was A trash..all that was said..and some other gigolo piped in..have no idea who it was...and it was early..like b4 2nd break..not ITM

 

[ph_il]

i was needling him about A trash and AQ was A trash...and it was early..like b4 2nd break..not ITM

I dont see how you can qualify AQ as Ace-trash in this situation. Was the BB an absolute nit that only shoves AA or KK? If I think my opponent is shoving with 77 or lower, Im calling with as small as A8 here. I might even call as low as A2 if I think my opponent is shoving with just a face high, giving me a 60/40 to win at a pot of 2:1 odds.

Regardless of it is or isnt near/ITM, you dont raise 50% of an opponents' stack just to fold. Effect stack is 7 BBs (Big blinds stack) and after all is said and done, you're getting just a bit better than 2:1 to call...with a hand that beats out so many hands or is a coinflip at best. Easy call.

 

[Dayne G.]

No, you didnt play it wrong at all. To fold here would've been a worse play than calling and losing the hand. Unless you put the BB on AA or KK or possibly even QQ, I dont see how you could not call with this situation.

At best/worse, villain is shoving with an under pair. You're getting 2:1 odds (slightly better actually) on a coin-flip situation which is exactly what you need to call. More than likely, though, villain is shoving with weaker hand than you are holding QJ, K10, AJ or worse, etc. So your AQ crushes his shoving range. So, given this..its a snap call for me. Also, given the fact that its the later stages of the tournament, these are the opportunities I look for to increase my stack, knock someone out, and move up.

Good call, IMO.

 

[ph_il]

Losing your touch? This is the shortest reply I've ever seen you post. LOL

 

[daxter70]

I dont see how you can qualify AQ as Ace-trash in this situation. Was the BB an absolute nit that only shoves AA or KK? If I think my opponent is shoving with 77 or lower, Im calling with as small as A8 here. I might even call as low as A2 if I think my opponent is shoving with just a face high, giving me a 60/40 to win at a pot of 2:1 odds.

Regardless of it is or isnt near/ITM, you dont raise 50% of an opponents' stack just to fold. Effect stack is 7 BBs (Big blinds stack) and after all is said and done, you're getting just a bit better than 2:1 to call...with a hand that beats out so many hands or is a coinflip at best. Easy call.

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

 

[dufferdevon]

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

Umm, I thought the OP said he had AQ suited? Last I checked AQ suited was a Group 2 hand, maybe Sklansky is a donkey too.

 

[pantin007]

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

only an idiot doesnt take a 60-40 with 2-1 odds

 

[bob_tiger]

Ok well I think I may have a few tips for you. First off don't listen to nobody in chat telling you how to play. Who are they? are these two guys some pros trying to help you get better? simple answer no, don't listen to them. easy solution, turn off chat and concentrate on poker.

Oh and answer to your question, your play was perfectly fine, especially since this was before itm, I believe you said it was 8 before itm if I didn't misread it. Little give you a little secret since you seem like a new player, before itm, like you said everybody will tighten up, this is where the better thinking/higher thinking players will make moves at people because so many people are playing scared money at this point and once everybody gets itm it go backs to being extra loose again since many of the shortstacks are trying to double up to go for the win, this is where you tighten up. Basically like mentioned by philthy after the intial raise you have to call here with AQ/and even with weaker hands I would call here because of such a good odds. I also suggest reading up on some odds, pot odds, implied odds, etc etc.

And posting on CC asking for help was definitely a great idea, since many of us have a little more experience and will be more than happy to help, this is what its all about.

 

[Inscore77]

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

AQs, or even off suit is standard call, and with the circumstances given is a call I would make every time. I've also won 3 mtt's. Would you like to berate my play as well?

Pantin is also right on the 60/40, hell for 2 to 1 I would take 70/30

 

[bob_tiger]

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

first of all, 60/40 isn't completly dominating your opponent but he is not risking his tourney life with 2:1 odds since he still have chips left and get a good price for it.

 

[Dwilius]

I think its 7 more bb not 7 total. If it was 7 total you'd have pot odds to call any hand but aces Still an autocall, villain doesn't need a huge hand to push 10bb, not covered, and winning a race would put you in good shape to move deep ITM.

 

[zachvac]

well philty...continue to shove with A8,,and continue with the 60/40 for ur tourney life!!

And you continue to fold when half your chips are already in the middle and you have 3.5 big blinds left with a hand that is most likely a favorite. In fact if I ever find myself in this situation with you I'll push all-in with any two cards. If you'll fold AQ I assume you'll fold anything other than AK unpaired and most likely you're folding under JJ, so if I get 3.5x + blinds if you fold, and only lose 7 if you call, meaning if you fold anything less than the top 1/3 of hands, even if I'm literally drawing dead every time you call (which is not possible, I'll always have some equity), I'll win. And you're proposing calling not even close to the top 33% of hands, AQs is in the top 4% according to pokerstove.

One other thing though, people are talking about 2:1 being odds to call a coin flip, but that's not true. If we have infinite stacks we are indifferent about calling a shove with a coin flip, and since we never have infinite stacks, if we have committed any money to the pot we always have odds to call a coin flip. In this case we have odds to call something that is 33% to win. This means if he flips over QQ we should still call. Granted if he has AA/KK/AK it's a bad call, but that's such a small part of his range. In the hand it was an underpair. We need 33% but had about 50%. One of the easiest calls in the world, standard tournament hand when blinds get big.

 

[ph_il]

I think its 7 more bb not 7 total. If it was 7 total you'd have pot odds to call dominated Still an autocall, villain doesn't need a huge hand to push 10bb, not covered, and winning a race would put you in good shape to move deep ITM.

I think its 7 BBs total.

I was dealt AQ diamonds in the 5 spot of 9 people, and raise the blind about 3.5 times the BB. The big blind goes all in and the amount was about double what I just put in.

3.5 x 2 = 7

 

[ph_il]

One other thing though, people are talking about 2:1 being odds to call a coin flip, but that's not true. If we have infinite stacks we are indifferent about calling a shove with a coin flip, and since we never have infinite stacks, if we have committed any money to the pot we always have odds to call a coin flip. In this case we have odds to call something that is 33% to win. This means if he flips over QQ we should still call. Granted if he has AA/KK/AK it's a bad call, but that's such a small part of his range. In the hand it was an underpair. We need 33% but had about 50%. One of the easiest calls in the world, standard tournament hand when blinds get big.

Hmmm...very good point here.

 

[Dwilius]

...and raise the blind about 3.5 times the BB. The big blind goes all in and the amount (to call) was about double what I just put in. I decided to call

This is how I read it. I orig thought 7 total, but i'm leaning towards this. If its 7 total, the criticism at the table was beyond stupid.

 

[viking999]

It really sounded like 7 total to me (the BB doubled the bet). In which case, it's a slight mistake to even fold even versus AK, KK, or QQ. The only hand against which folding AQ getting 3:1 is right is AA. The play was just fine by me.

 

[Dayne G.]

Losing your touch? This is the shortest reply I've ever seen you post. LOL

LOL. I totally agreed w/ everything that was said. I wanted to elaborate, but all I could think of was...

 

[SankTheTank]

I don't think this is a horrible call. I might have called it too because Ace-Queen is a pretty good hand but he could have had better (AA, KK, QQ) in which your chances wouldn't have been much. However, against 77, I'll take AQ suited any day if it's only going to cost me half my stack late in a tournament.