****About Time We All Got Paid August Cash Thread****

[Deco]

Meh I have tight flatting ranges generally but I think it's fairly standard (AQo that is folding AQs is likely me being a nit ). Most regs won't be opening AJo/KQo UTG, their range will be too tight to float and when we do run in to AJs we won't make nearly as much money as AK, KK+ will from us. We're pretty much forced to play fit or fold for the most part with a hand that is rarely dominating and often dominated.

If they're not very positional and open KQo and AJo in early position or if they will widen their range to a fish in the blinds and open wider then flattings alright.

 

[acky100]

More likely to 3bet it from MP actually just seen, but i highly doubt you can't flat AQ vs 95% of regs UTG's like on the button or CO, and be +EV, something to check your database for maybe. It just seems easy to defend and show a profit IP vs most regs, cause they always cbet Axx with all their pocket pairs pretty much, same for Qxx, they x/f a ton on flops that hit our perceived range well and you always have equity to bluff raise good flops too. If thats the case i think, so if you can call and show a profit then 3betting is obviously bad because of all the worse aces you can 3bet as a bluff here. Its obviously close because AJ and AT seem like pretty easy folds, AQ seems to play quite like AK though and its pretty!

edit: if their UTG range is something ridic like 6% then yeah i can fold it happily but don't you find most guys at 100nl are around 10-12% UTG?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

A lot of words going on ^ and only a few I understand. But enjoying the discussion!

 

[vanquish]

registered for first try at LSAT Oct 6th


The real world is closing in on me

i took that shit in february make sure u bring a snack and dont take weird ADD drugs beforehand like all the weird gay law school kids do

 

[Deco]

I'm playing zoom, it's bound to be more nitty but it's a rare rare day I see a reg with a 10-12% UTG range.

I can't check my database for it as I fold in those spots so naturally I will be making 0bb/100. Might be hard to filter for specific positional tag regs and if we could it would likely be nowere near converged as its such a specific spot.

Picking up a c-bet is not going to make a fit or fold play EV+.

Raising is something I've been trying lately as it looks so damn strong but it has it's pitfalls. Firstly it's like the one spot where an underpair will do just as well, when we are called our outs are very often unclean and holding negative implied odds. Its not like when we hit we can ever value bet. An underpair may only have 2outs but at least they'll be clean most the time and hold implied odds. Secondly on dry flops we rep nothing, who on earth raises sets here, whilst on wet flops we'll get over shoved on more wider (prefer the wet flops though as thinking villains know I'm not holding many draws here).

 

[acky100]

raising a flop with AQ is a million times better than a small pocket pair and its not even close!

I just cant get my head around not being able to call AQ in late position profitably, are we gonna start 3betting AK as a bluff next or folding it pre vs regs UTG's

 

[baudib1]

I have a friend (who describes himself as a spazzy nit) who plays the same games as Deco and he says there are plenty of bad/nitty regs he just folds AK to if they open UTG.

 

[vanquish]

I have a friend (who describes himself as a spazzy nit) who plays the same games as Deco and he says there are plenty of bad/nitty regs he just folds AK to if they open UTG.

jesus

 

[vanquish]

even against a 3% opening range, AK is 67% on K high flops and 77% on A high flops

 

[vanquish]

omfg

 

[acky100]

Yeah if they are nits and open like 5% UTG then by all means, but its pretty standard to make some profit with the bottom of a standard calling range with hands like AQ vs regulars i think, so so many regs have big holes in their game. Like they cbet once give up too much, fold 60% to flop raises. only c-bet 50% and x/f every time they check. Not saying folding AQ is bad but i think its really bad if you always fold it vs UTG's as a standard

lol folding AK is pretty ridic, is ure friend dumb or do people exist who open a 2% range utg?

 

[vanquish]

omfgomfg

 

[vanquish]

against the nittiest of all nitty opening ranges, AK is still a sizeable favorite on A&K high flops


i mean cmon wtf

 

[baudib1]

Nope he's a winning reg who's targeting 300K FPPs this year.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Just registered for the mobile phone insurance that I've been eligible for with my bank account for years, I cant make a claim on anything that happens within the next 7 days though so hopefully my phone stays in one piece til then!

Spoiler

Dropped it and smashed the screen today, realised I had never registered for the mobile cover with my bank acc, new insurance will be getting a call in around 8-14 days time lol

 

[Deco]

raising a flop with AQ is a million times better than a small pocket pair and its not even close!

I just cant get my head around not being able to call AQ in late position profitably, are we gonna start 3betting AK as a bluff next or folding it pre vs regs UTG's

I flat AK in that spot.

Raising overcards is normally way better than raising underpairs for obvious reasons but when you consider how strong villains calling range is in the UTG vs Btn or MP flatting spot we're discussing overcards don't mean so much anymore.

An an example the flop comes K59r and we raise AQ. When are any of our 6 outs ever going to be good when villains continuing range is going to be {AK, 55, 99, KK+}. At least under-pairs have outs here.

This is a bit of a worst case scenario where all our outs are dead but it illustrates my point well. You can't just assume overcards always have great equity when raising.

I have a friend (who describes himself as a spazzy nit) who plays the same games as Deco and he says there are plenty of bad/nitty regs he just folds AK to if they open UTG.

What's his username? I think you've either misheard him or he's not a winner. Maybe he said he folds AK to EP/MP 3bets vs nits which is pretty standard? As vanq pointed out open folding AK to a single raise would be retarded against anyone. Even vs someone with a 1% pfr I'd still call assuming that 1% isn;t AA or that his pfr isn't converged.

 

[acky100]

When do we raise K95r flops vs tight UTG ranges? Come on Deco.

 

[Deco]

When do we raise K95r flops vs tight UTG ranges? Come on Deco.

Its one of my favourite flops to do it, There's next to nothing he can call with just look at how tight that range is. It has the same problem I discussed earlier where we rep nothing but thats equally true to lower dry flops.

Something low like T78 can potentially have 77+ all coming along. Raising flops in this spot is something fairly recent to my game though. What sort of flops do you raise here?

 

[acky100]

Flops that are good for our perceived range if he's competent, so definitely not K95r if he's competent. Don't mind raising K95r all day long if he's just gonna give up 50%+ and not question our reppage, but yeah flops like T87ss and the sort are gonna work much more, because when they do call a good number of overcards can mean they're almost always x/f'ing the turn. And our Q and A has a good bit of built in SDV/equity when we do bink one of our 6 outs. Depends on the guy though, if he doesn't fold to raises at all i probably wouldn't **** with him too much. Just the weaker regs who don't fight back.

edit:

I can imagine this happening a ton at zoom, people calling the raise planning to x/f when you fire the turn "testing whether you really have a set" So low flops that only get scarier are good! then you can rep extra outs like when flush draw or straight draw hits

 

[Deco]

What hands are we repping that beat over pairs on T87ss that we can't rep on K95? Just looks like we're repping nothing but sets on both. Its not like we flat 78 or J9.

 

[acky100]

we rep sets better though, we also rep some draws if we are flatting any decent suited hands vs weak players, which i guess you're not because you nearly had a heart attack imagining flatting a hand as weak as AQ

 

[Deco]

we rep sets better though, we also rep some draws if we are flatting any decent suited hands vs weak players, which i guess you're not because you nearly had a heart attack imagining flatting a hand as weak as AQ

lol
Ye does make more sense simple as raising the sets on a dry board would be weird. Will start doing this myself.

Still think our AQ outs are shit here though. There live against what 99/JJ/AsJs/KsQs have between 0-3 against 77/88/TT/AA/QQ/KK, Have no implied odds and will probably have the flush draw hands bluff us off our hand on the river if they don't hit.

6outs: 14combos
3outs: 12combos
0outs: 12combos

We average ~3outs. Obviously an underpairs outs are shit as well but at least we're not calling the underpair based on its great bluffing potential.

 

[acky100]

Seriously not getting into the argument why raising with small PP's is far worse than AQ for your overall bluffing success, by all means raise the river or turn with them in good spots where they're bet folding a lot but with overcards you do have more outs, simple as, doesn't matter if its only 1 or 2 more, you have plenty of chances to raise you mayaswel do it more often with more equity, You gotta remember how valueable turning straight outs, BACKDOOR outs etc is, even if someone calls your raise with KK you have 3 outs, you will often turn straight outs and flush outs too if you raise these boards with overcards instead. I'm not on about just raising flops UTG-LP, just in general better stuff happens when you arent pure bluffing. Oops i started arguing, somewhat relevant hand i just played, if i had AQ here with a backdoor flush draw and overcards it would be a fine spot to raise at some point, with 88 i prefer just making him bet fold the river instead of turning my hand into a bluff. Sick psychology skills needed though.

poker stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1873538
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $109.89
BB: $105.21
UTG: $70.00
UTG+1: $100.95
UTG+2: $100.00
MP1: $40.00
Hero (MP2): $107.78
CO: $108.31
BTN: $40.89

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with 8 :spade: 8 :heart:
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $3, 4 folds

Flop: ($7.50) T :diamond: 2 :diamond: T :spade: (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $4, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($15.50) K :heart: (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $9, Hero calls $9

River: ($33.50) 9 :club: (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $11, Hero raises to $24, UTG+2 folds

 

[Jagsti]

Seeing as the staking theme went a bit tits up with shiloh, thought I'd post this for the lolz

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...yers-only-profitable-3-weeks-out-4-a-1233753/

 

[Tammy]

Hey guys, tomorrow is the last day to get in on the action: Pokerstars Oct 2012 $1k Freeroll Sign-up Thread