My 50k hands of 10NL

[jsh169]

I only found 2 hands looking at your threads, while one hand you can call fancy play and the other you overvalued your hand, which we all do from time to time. I still think at least for you look at all your biggest losing hands and see if you think you did anything wrong, a small preflop mistake can lead to big river mistake. I guess one leak I see it looks like your to passive preflop in the bb, I'm sure you have to be hu in position at times with passive players punish them. Also you should be trying to isolate hands that gets limped to you, make it another 1bb since your out of position, ie limper mp and folds to you in the bb, make it 5x. Doing this gives you the initiative and gives you a much greater chance of winning the pot tight example would be A10s+ajO+Kq+. One thing I have found while playing out of position and you know the player is unlikely to fold feel free to overbet in these spots, make them pay for being a passive station, generally talking the turn when the board gets ugly or you think villain is never folding.

 

[DrazaFFT]

I only found 2 hands looking at your threads, while one hand you can call fancy play and the other you overvalued your hand, which we all do from time to time. I still think at least for you look at all your biggest losing hands and see if you think you did anything wrong, a small preflop mistake can lead to big river mistake. I guess one leak I see it looks like your to passive preflop in the bb, I'm sure you have to be hu in position at times with passive players punish them. Also you should be trying to isolate hands that gets limped to you, make it another 1bb since your out of position, ie limper mp and folds to you in the bb, make it 5x. Doing this gives you the initiative and gives you a much greater chance of winning the pot tight example would be A10s+ajO+Kq+. One thing I have found while playing out of position and you know the player is unlikely to fold feel free to overbet in these spots, make them pay for being a passive station, generally talking the turn when the board gets ugly or you think villain is never folding.

I was referring to this thread, https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/ev-drazas-poker-log-233822/? its linked in my signature.

Good points you made here, ill definitely have that in mind tho i guess that i will have to be careful with the overbets without some info on opp or at least semi descent hand cuz the first thing that made difference when moved from 2nl was stop 3barelling like a madman

 

[gattutoche85]

How long u being playing poker? I had some issues when my stack gets up I get scared and play less hand than when I started to play

 

[DrazaFFT]

You are putting more volume than I am

I started to play a bit of 2nl at FTP this year after I decided I am fed up of the turbos and RB's on their site. I have only managed 256 hands, I only play one table when I get better at cash game I will think of multi-tabling. My BB/100 looks great at 35.66, but that's only cos of the small sample size, I am not fooling myself hehe. My overall BB/100 looks baaaaaaaaad I have in total 975 hands and my BB/100 is -3.49. Maybe I will crush 2nl or just stay a tournament player. I will have fun either way

you probably should forget the bb/100 while you're still adopting to cash game, plus the 975 hands sample is to little to even make any conclusion from it, i can show you a sessions where at 1k+ hands i had like 250bb/100 and also sessions where i was like -400bb/100 both of which doesnt proving anything about my game, i also single tabled for a while till i get more confident then switched to 2 tables than to 4 i can now play at 6 tables but i dont feel really good and relaxed like when i play at 4 tables im missing some spots make some bad decisions which i mostly avoid while 4 tabling...

 

[Figaroo2]

short stack strategy

I came across this today and thought of this thread
http://www.gripsed.com/grinder/short-stack-strategy

 

[DrazaFFT]

I came across this today and thought of this thread
http://www.gripsed.com/grinder/short-stack-strategy

Thanks Bruce, i'll check it out...

 

[EvertonGirl]

you probably should forget the bb/100 while you're still adopting to cash game, plus the 975 hands sample is to little to even make any conclusion from it, i can show you a sessions where at 1k+ hands i had like 250bb/100 and also sessions where i was like -400bb/100 both of which doesnt proving anything about my game, i also single tabled for a while till i get more confident then switched to 2 tables than to 4 i can now play at 6 tables but i dont feel really good and relaxed like when i play at 4 tables im missing some spots make some bad decisions which i mostly avoid while 4 tabling...

That's why I said I am not gonna fool myself I don't think I will ever play 6 tables, I get way too stressed and swear all the time when I miss opportunities I read that 10+bb/100 is crushing the level, I thought 1k+ hands was enough to determine to move up... So how many hands should I have before I make that move. I am rolled for 5nl but would rather get the volume at 2nl first.

 

[LeeCallaghan]

oh wow thanks for sharing. 50K!!! holy cow but where is your money?

 

[jsh169]

When I'm talking about overbetting in these spots its for value, not to push a fish off a hand, this is when you particularly see that there range is WIDE and they don't like to FOLD, punish them for this mistake and over betting is one of the best elements of doing so. I'm not saying to bluff a fish with barrel barrel barrel, because in the end you will have zero dollars, but value range against fish has to become wider and should be stronger. For some reason never saw your thread may not of been logged in or whatever, whenever I hovered I saw no link. Anyways it looks like you overvalue all pairs in general especially when they become bluff catchers. I know your set up for a 40bb stack, but may want to go to 2nl and try playing 100bbs, playing this short stack a lot of rake is going to hurt your overall return.

 

[DrazaFFT]

Im playing with other people's money so its not like it's my call what game i'll play, i already played MSS with my own money and i got offered a stake to play same game, 10bb shorter on their network and have 50% rakeback, and their interest will be only the part of the rake that room will send to them so i dont think that they would be interested in letting me play around at 2nl and generate no rake for them to get...

spot on on the bluff catchers i do tend to overplay pockets and TP on flop that went to the river mostly cuz the only thng i was taking in the consideration was pot odds and i say to myself well i only need to be good this or that % and i call, lately i fold a lot lot more, i can start posting the hands again, i stopped posting cuz i havent got any feedback lately and thought that people lost interest or like most people i know, dont like to discuss MSS/SSS here is one just played

Prima, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $7.02 (70.2 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $17.72 (177.2 bb)
MP: $4.08 (40.8 bb)
CO: $11.80 (118 bb)
BTN: $11.34 (113.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8

8

UTG raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, BB folds

Flop: ($0.70) 3

6

A

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.60) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($1.60) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.20, Hero folds

Results: $1.60 pot ($0.08 rake)
Final Board: 3

6

A

4

3

Hero mucked 8

8

and lost (-$0.75 net)
UTG mucked and won $1.52 ($0.77 net)

 

[DrazaFFT]

That's why I said I am not gonna fool myself I don't think I will ever play 6 tables, I get way too stressed and swear all the time when I miss opportunities I read that 10+bb/100 is crushing the level, I thought 1k+ hands was enough to determine to move up... So how many hands should I have before I make that move. I am rolled for 5nl but would rather get the volume at 2nl first.

well this might not be the good advice but i'd move up if i have a roll for higher stakes, i only followed the BRM which was really strict to move up and i never ever looked back tho so far i only passed 2nl and 5nl but still...

 

[TimovieMan]

That's why I said I am not gonna fool myself I don't think I will ever play 6 tables, I get way too stressed and swear all the time when I miss opportunities I read that 10+bb/100 is crushing the level, I thought 1k+ hands was enough to determine to move up... So how many hands should I have before I make that move. I am rolled for 5nl but would rather get the volume at 2nl first.

4 tables is very manageable, imo, and you can always slowly build up. Start with two until you're comfortable with the speed, then add a third, and when comfortable with that, add a fourth. Takes some adjusting at first but you'll get the hang of it soon enough.
6 tables and more is a different beast altogether, though. And you'd probably need to stack the tables then instead of spreading them out across the screen so they're all visible at all times.


As for moving up: if you're rolled for 5NL, then I don't think there's any reason to stick around at 2NL. The plan is to move up eventually anyway, right? Then why limit your own possible hourly winrate? The difference between 2NL and 5NL isn't that big, and as long as you're comfortable dropping back down again when things go bad, there's no real reason to hold yourself back now, imo.

 

[jsh169]

I think you played the hand fine, some may advocate folding the flop, kind of hard not knowing the player, but ranges are definitely the strongest from utg, also putting all of the Ax broadways in there, it's clearly a range advantage flop vs your hand. I think clearly a fold on the river so good job on that.

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

Here's some of my advice for you Draza.

1. Cold Call in the blinds way less! This is a major leak because you are supposed to be losing the least in the blinds. If you're gonna cold call, you could just pick some more hands to cold call IP instead of cold calling in the blinds.

2. I talked about this concept in the Polished Poker Vol 1. Study group, so I'm going to copy paste it. The main point is that you should 3! more IP and less OOP.

[The next time you 3! OOP, ask yourself why you are doing it. Don't just think 3! is the right play automatically. Are you good at playing OOP? If you aren't, why are you making the pot bloated by doing a 3! ? This is so important because the only times you are 3! OOP are probably the blinds. The blinds is where you're supposed to try and lose the least! Maybe try tightening up your 3! range OOP. Don't just blindly decide AQ, AJ, QQ-TT is a 3! OOP. There are a bunch of hands that I can see that are still beating that range. Heck even QJ/QK is stronger than TT if the player plays you IP. Review your hands and see how you're losing them and see how you can avoid losing it against the type of player you're up against. Please don't get the wrong idea because I'm not saying AQ, AJ, QQ-TT isn't a 3! sometimes.]

Try working on those things first.

This was my journey at 10nl for the pash few months, cant say that im happy, cant say that i should unsatisfied i got lucky in few sessions had some ups and downs, currently im on a 60bucks downer last 2 days...

here is the graph and here are the stats, i would love to get some feedback


for those who dont know, im involved in stake deal where i suppose to play MPP 40bb deep...

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

If you want to improve your game you should read Polished poker Vol 1. a good long read. Give John A a round of applause for that one.

 

[DrazaFFT]

Thanks for the reply my friend. About the 3bet situations. When i started with the stqke deal i got chart of opening 3betting 4betting and cold calling range for each position and against every position. My 3bet range is polarised with value hands and bluff hands if 4betted i shove my value range and fold all my bluff range.i oly have a c3b range at btn and co against blinds i dont have a c3b range if i will be oop i do have a cc range but its alwayas ip or are meant for blind defense against btn or sb steal. I do aee your point being that this are most probably the biggest losing hands when i cc at bb against ip opener cuz then i probably call multiple streets with tpwk or midp my bb cc range is pretty wide and i deffo dont play it good post flop. I dot hqve a cc range at sb as you can see that cc % there is pretty low, i only cc there with low pockets to setmine. I started reading polished poker the notes part is great, the main reason why i abandoned is when chapters masively relied on stats and hud and back in that time i didn't had hem.
About 3betting oop part i undertand that its difficult to play post flop oop if i get called wider from ip opener but wouldnt it make me more vulnerable to stealing if i tighten up my 3bet from sb or even exclude bluffs from my 3bet, same with tightening up at bb...

Thanks again for the reply, its great to get such spot on advice, ill definitely search trough my hands where i cc oop or played in ebet pot oop post flop and i probably post it here or in my original thread

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

You don't need to "polarize" your 3bet range in 2nl-25nl to be a consistent winning player. What if I'm a good LAG and I 4bet you every single time with Ax, Kx (blockers for aces or kings) on the button when you try to 3bet with a "polarized range" and fold every time you decide to shove (ofc I'm gonna be calling AA, KK)? You're definitely not going to be getting enough value hands to shove on me and I get Ax, Kx type hands way more often. Wouldn't that defeat your strategy already?

At these low stakes, how often are people stealing blinds anyways? I'd have to venture a guess and say that it isn't that much. It's very important you understand what type of player is stealing too. There's different courses of action to take against different type of players. I'll leave that for you to figure out.

Thanks for the reply my friend. About the 3bet situations. When i started with the stqke deal i got chart of opening 3betting 4betting and cold calling range for each position and against every position. My 3bet range is polarised with value hands and bluff hands if 4betted i shove my value range and fold all my bluff range.i oly have a c3b range at btn and co against blinds i dont have a c3b range if i will be oop i do have a cc range but its alwayas ip or are meant for blind defense against btn or sb steal. I do aee your point being that this are most probably the biggest losing hands when i cc at bb against ip opener cuz then i probably call multiple streets with tpwk or midp my bb cc range is pretty wide and i deffo dont play it good post flop. I dot hqve a cc range at sb as you can see that cc % there is pretty low, i only cc there with low pockets to setmine. I started reading polished poker the notes part is great, the main reason why i abandoned is when chapters masively relied on stats and hud and back in that time i didn't had hem.
About 3betting oop part i undertand that its difficult to play post flop oop if i get called wider from ip opener but wouldnt it make me more vulnerable to stealing if i tighten up my 3bet from sb or even exclude bluffs from my 3bet, same with tightening up at bb...

Thanks again for the reply, its great to get such spot on advice, ill definitely search trough my hands where i cc oop or played in ebet pot oop post flop and i probably post it here or in my original thread

 

[DrazaFFT]

well its interesting to say that there is no need to polarize for this limits to be winner but then you giving me an example of me facing a good lag player, how often would i see good lag player at those limits??? It would be easier to just switch tables and dont think but here, if you opened from CO with what ever and i 3 bet you from BT when 50% of my 3bets are value hands and 50 percents are bluffs which i fold to 4bet how long would it take you to see is my 3bet range merged or polarised so you can adopt the strategy of 4bet bluffing with all aces and kings and have to fold most of them to half of my range... doesnt seem like a +EV situation either...

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

If you're playing on stars, some people probably already know exactly how you play.

The main idea is you should be cold calling and 3! less in the blinds and 3! and cold call (you have to find your own balance against different player types) more IP. It will open up a lot more avenues for you.

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

Also if i was sitting at your table, I would just attack your blinds all day cause that's where you're losing the most. I wouldn't need to isolate you when you're on the button.... I would be able to recognize you get into too many marginal situations in the blinds and capitalize off that instead.

EDIT: That's what im saying. You answered your own question. There ARENT many good lags/regs at your limit, so why is a "polarized" range so important? If so few people at those stakes understand what a "polarized" range is, why does it matter? Ofc polarized and depolarized ranges become a KEY factor when you keep moving up.

 

[DrazaFFT]

If you're playing on stars, some people probably already know exactly how you play.

The main idea is you should be cold calling and 3! less in the blinds and 3! and cold call (you have to find your own balance against different player types) more IP. It will open up a lot more avenues for you.

Yea i definitelly agree with this statement, i actually dont have a range co call 3bet OOP, and if i would ever do that its strictly with PP and with setmine odds. i also dont have a CC range OOP beside at BB against BTN 2bb open...

I play anon tables at microgaming...

 

[DrazaFFT]

Also if i was sitting at your table, I would just attack your blinds all day cause that's where you're losing the most. I wouldn't need to isolate you when you're on the button.... I would be able to recognize you get into too many marginal situations in the blinds and capitalize off that instead.

EDIT: That's what im saying. You answered your own question. There ARENT many good lags/regs at your limit, so why is a "polarized" range so important? If so few people at those stakes understand what a "polarized" range is, why does it matter? Ofc polarized and depolarized ranges become a KEY factor when you keep moving up.

I definitely should fix the bb game back in the time when i played at FTP i was folding way to much so BTN could literally open ATC and profit... Now im calling a lot, like 30% or more i think, all broadways but premiums, all small pockets all aces and all suited kings and all suited connectors, also 3bet premiuims for value and bluff almost same amount as garbage... my biggest weakness is i guess postflop with the CC range... so what to do different specifically at BB against a BTN...

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

How about you first start by only playing good hands in the blinds and work from there. You need to learn how to expand the amount of hands you play in position first before learning on how to expand the amount of hands you play out of position.

 

[DrazaFFT]

How about you first start by only playing good hands in the blinds and work from there. You need to learn how to expand the amount of hands you play in position first before learning on how to expand the amount of hands you play out of position.

Well that sounds good. I actuall played that way when i played at fulltilt i might load that database in hem and post stats from there but it was only 2 and 5nl

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

Check this hand out. I would not have been able to do this type of move unless I knew this guy was a GOOD LAG. As you can see, I'm IP making this move.


***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 *****
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em
Table TBones (real money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $30.00 USD )
Seat 2: Player2 ( $57.12 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 25, 3B: 12, AF: 3.5, Hands: 148
Seat 3: Hero ( $73.25 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 7, AF: 2.2, Hands: 44712
Seat 5: Player5 ( $72.48 USD )
Seat 6: Player6 ( $58.75 USD )
Player5 posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Player6 posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Th Kh ]
Player1 folds
Player2 raises [$1.25 USD]
Hero raises [$3.75 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player2 raises [$7.00 USD]
Hero raises [$13.80 USD]
Player2 folds
Hero wins $10.55 USD
Hero wins $16.00 USD from main pot