10 reasons why you play "TAG" poker at micro limit ring games and still lose money...

[hornellfred]

Well I guess i am guilty of all 10 at one time another, except for the suited connectors which I think are excellent hands to see a flop with prefer them over pp's not painted. The main thing I hate in freerolls especially is all the complaining about getting beat with inferior hands. You get two cards in your hand and 5 more are coming you are going all-in on 2/7 of your hand. Two pair beat pocket aces everytime so quit whining and hold your all ins till post flop.

 

[nevadanick]

Very good post you touch base on many game play situations. Alot of players including myself have lost due any one of your points. The sd thing is breaking a bad habit of chasing then when you dont chase the card shows up and we are back into the habit of chasing. The worst chasing is the allin preflop I call it russian roulette and it takes no skill to play that way.

Yep, NL Russian roulette, but using a 9mil with an empty clip and one in the chimney. ...

In most cases, if you stop chasing and the magic card shows up, all you need to remember is that it does not show up often enough to go back to chasing. On FT it can also be very deceiving. If you had made the choice to chase, that same card is NOT likely to have been the one to hit the board anyway. At stars, it would be. Post fold hands are always interesting, just don't put any weight on them.
.

 

[Dwilius]

On FT it can also be very deceiving. If you had made the choice to chase, that same card is NOT likely to have been the one to hit the board anyway. At stars, it would be.

say what?

 

[teksmith]

Good list. I'm sure I have been guilty of most of these over time but 2 3 & 4 are my biggest problems right now.

 

[nevadanick]

In most cases, if you stop chasing and the magic card shows up, all you need to remember is that it does not show up often enough to go back to chasing. On FT it can also be very deceiving. If you had made the choice to chase, that same card is NOT likely to have been the one to hit the board anyway. At stars, it would be. Post fold hands are always interesting, just don't put any weight on them.

say what?

What is it you don't understand ?? FT or Stars ??

 

[F Paulsson]

I think nevadanick means that on Stars, the deck is pre-shuffled whereas on FTP random cards are drawn at the time they're dealt. If this is true in the case of FTP I don't know, but it would make sense. I know that Stars pre-shuffles, at least.

 

[nevadanick]

I think nevadanick means that on Stars, the deck is pre-shuffled whereas on Full Tilt Poker random cards are drawn at the time they're dealt. If this is true in the case of FTP I don't know, but it would make sense. I know that Stars pre-shuffles, at least.

Correct. At Stars, a deck is shuffled and all 52 cards are 'set', just as a deck at a live table. You could effectively 'rabbit hunt'. The only diff is that there is no burn card used online at Stars.

At FT, cards are dealt from the constant shuffle of the remaining deck 'on demand'. I got this verification from Tech Support at FT and would be happy to share the content if anyone wants it. You cannot rabbit hunt in this case (even if it were an option).

 

[telaino]

Great post!I'm sure guilty of a bunch of ur points,but sometimes u play rigth and just loose...!
Only sometimes,play rigth and u'll win it's true.

 

[Munchrs]

my understanding was that stars re shuffles the deck between each card been dealt.

 

[F Paulsson]

my understanding was that stars re shuffles the deck between each card been dealt.

Unless they changed this in the last year, this is not the case. I have it in an email from the horse's mouth himself, somewhere (that is, Lee Jones).

 

[nevadanick]

my understanding was that stars re shuffles the deck between each card been dealt.

from: PokerStars Software Security - Secure Online Poker

To perform an actual shuffle, we use another simple and reliable algorithm:

• first we draw a random card from the original deck (1 of 52) and place it in a new deck - now original deck contains 51 cards and the new deck contains 1 card
• then we draw another random card from the original deck (1 of 51) and place it on top of the new deck - now original deck contains 50 cards and the new deck contains 2 cards
• we repeat the process until all cards have moved from the original deck to the new deck
• ---------------------

And confirming that in an e-mail from tech support:

Hello Nick,

Thanks for your email and for your intriguing questions. I will do my
best to address them completely.

First of all, as in a real life casino, the cards are shuffled, the deck
is set and the hands are dealt. If a player folds the next player will
get the card that WAS coming. It does not change.

[snipped answers to other questions]
Regards,

Patrick K.
pokerstars Support Team
---------
Full Tilt decks are in a state of constant shuffle between cards.
.

 

[Dwilius]

Thanks, I understand now. I thought it was a "this site rewards chasers" comment at first. We've wandered far enough off topic here though. This is a 5star thread we're hijacking.

 

[nevadanick]

Thanks, I understand now. I thought it was a "this site rewards chasers" comment at first. We've wandered far enough off topic here though. This is a 5star thread we're hijacking.

Actually, my original reply was in response to item #9 on the list (chasing) and the replies about chasers and how to avoid going back to that style/strategy of play.

Understanding the mechanics of online play can be as important a factor in some cases as understanding odds, position, etc.

It is, overall, one heckofa 10 point list. !!!

 

[Unique2Read]

In the beginning, guilty of all 10. Now, I'm a much smarter cookie. Nice post!

 

[Ummagumma]

#7 is my worst enemy... The rest im getting better with...slowly but surely. A good read man, nice post.

 

[sisko]

7) You do not raise/re-raise nearly enough before the flop.

8) You think folding 98 suited in late position to a raise is playing TAG.

thanks for great post. these habits are what i am trying to get rid of nowadays.

 

[Hobbs665]

Microlimt advice that is good and can help anyone is hard to come by.

This thread delivers.

(accept the place where someone started talking about FR...)

 

[GrantGreen]

I hear so many (bad) players whining these days about how they can't beat micro limit games playing a tight & aggressive game. Well they're obviously doing it wrong, and here's why:

1) You fail to recognize that your good preflop hand does not mean squat if the flop comes out badly.

2) You can't fold top pair, because its the best hand the majority of the time.

3) You think playing KJ and AT in early position is playing tight.

4) You slowplay.

5) You think players notice your tight play.

6) You go on tilt when your AK loses to some idiot with 97.

7) You do not raise/re-raise nearly enough before the flop.

8) You think folding 98 suited in late position to a raise is playing TAG.

9) You don't want them to chase.

10) When your opponent hits his obvious draw, you proceed to spew money to him anyways.

Can't say I'm immune to these things myself, but this is generally why you're losing money. You're a giant implied odds machine that doesn't get enough money out of their big hands, doesn't understand pot control with your mediocre ones, and then you bluff way to much and go on tilt and spew off more money.

QFT.

Nice post. I guess the whole thing is getting married to AA, KK, and AK preflop, and being unable to release. There's a great post in 2+2 about when you're ready to move up, and one of the main things before leaving the micros is being able to lay down AA and KK unimproved.

 

[TheDoc]

Great thread.

I find the TPTK thing tricky when faced with aggression. What should we think about when we have TPTK, or an overpair, we put out a bet on the flop, and are then faced with a raise or a check raise from the opponent? Without a read on the opponent, should we be looking to raise, or call to control the pot, or fold? General question I know, but interested in others thought processes.

 

[c9h13no3]

Great thread.

I find the TPTK thing tricky when faced with aggression. What should we think about when we have TPTK, or an overpair, we put out a bet on the flop, and are then faced with a raise or a check raise from the opponent? Without a read on the opponent, should we be looking to raise, or call to control the pot, or fold? General question I know, but interested in others thought processes.

Depends mostly on flop texture & history between me and my opponent.

So if the flop is bone dry, and my opponent is weak/passive, then I'm folding to resistance.

If the flop is drawy, and my opponent is very aggressive, then I'm probably going to get it in with an overpair. Maybe TPTK.

Everything in between should be played accordingly.

But in general, the value of big pairs goes down the farther away you get from preflop. So raising aces on the river is about the worst possible way you can play them.

 

[PokerVector]

"5) You think players notice your tight play"

...guilty. I tend to think that I have a 'table image' online.

"9) You don't want them to chase."

...that one, too. But that comes from getting rivered more often than I'm willing to admit.

 

[lrrpk9]

8) You think folding 98 suited in late position to a raise is playing TAG.
I don't understand this from all I have read the ideal hand with suited connectors is when your in late to act with several limpers in which you also want to limp. If its folded to you you may raise with this hand in late position and you may play it if the raiser is known as super-aggressive but I think you have made this to simple. HOH v1 pg191 Case 2 player third position opens three times big blind your in fifth... "Holding suited connectors : Fold them all" and Case 3 with just a caller "Fold them...you dont have enough players in the pot yet." You say this with no reason or explanation , I was wondering what you think you should do here as a TAG? Call? Re-raise? Might be right if the player is loose but you have not told us that, and if he's tight your probably behind here. I still think folding is right , you have no money in the pot and can look for better cards or situation.

 

[c9h13no3]

The point of that was to convey that playing pots in position is extremely profitable. And 98s is a hand which will flop draws, and will give you implied odds against your opponents.

If you have hold'em manager, go to position, and load the "HU on flop with no PFR" filter. I'm massively profitable when I'm playing on the button, far more than in any position, even without being the aggressor preflop.

Playing pots on the button is something you should do a ridiculous amount of, and suited connectors are certainly a hand that falls into that category of "good enough for the button".

I mix up calling and 3-betting with suited connectors depending on stack sizes & opponent tendancies.

 

[DrewP25]

VERY TRUE! the reason i only plo PLO cash. cause i'm much more +EV to these reasons

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

8) You think folding 98 suited in late position to a raise is playing TAG.
I don't understand this from all I have read the ideal hand with suited connectors is when your in late to act with several limpers in which you also want to limp. If its folded to you you may raise with this hand in late position and you may play it if the raiser is known as super-aggressive but I think you have made this to simple. HOH v1 pg191 Case 2 player third position opens three times big blind your in fifth... "Holding suited connectors : Fold them all" and Case 3 with just a caller "Fold them...you dont have enough players in the pot yet." You say this with no reason or explanation , I was wondering what you think you should do here as a TAG? Call? Re-raise? Might be right if the player is loose but you have not told us that, and if he's tight your probably behind here. I still think folding is right , you have no money in the pot and can look for better cards or situation.

Just as a side note: HoH is for tournament games - not ring games (cash), which is what this article is about.