When pot odds get expensive...



Rock Star
I don't think I had any choice but to call this even though it turned out expensive. Did I make the right play here or would I have been better raising at some point, it looked like I had a lot of outs on the flop.

***** Hand History for Game 5492256742 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, December 09, 04:45:57 ET 2006
Table Table 127204 (real money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: myxiplx ( $69.93 )
Seat 5: crisstian1 ( $120.85 )
Seat 9: Thibaw81 ( $212.65 )
Seat 8: almora ( $81.80 )
Seat 7: canine83 ( $113.15 )
Seat 1: Jujuliving ( $48.80 )
Seat 10: jeff_stryker ( $71 )
Seat 2: Snort71 ( $120.20 )
Seat 4: trader92 ( $20.80 )
Seat 6: altinlala ( $116.20 )
trader92 posts small blind [$0.50].
altinlala posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to myxiplx [ 7d Ad ]
canine83 raises [$3.50]
almora folds
Thibaw81 calls [$3.50]
jeff_stryker folds
Jujuliving folds
Snort71 folds
myxiplx calls [$3.50]
trader92 folds
altinlala calls [$2.50]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 3c, 4c ]
altinlala checks
>You have options at Jackpot #1306377 Table!.
canine83 bets [$15]
Thibaw81 calls [$15]
>You have options at Jackpot #1308787 Table!.
myxiplx calls [$15]
altinlala folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7h ]
canine83 bets [$52]
Thibaw81 folds
myxiplx folds
canine83 does not show cards.
canine83 wins $108.55
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
Fold PF.

But, since you didn't, you were getting 3 to 1 on your money on the flop with a double belly buster. So eight outs between with two cards coming is just under 2.2 to 1, so pots odds say correct call.
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

You don't consider A7s a really easy fold to a UTG raise and a UTG+2 call with two people left to act?

imo it's nowhere near 'borderline'.
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
You`ve got position. There`s an argument for saying that makes it worth seeing a flop, but I`m not disagreeing with you, Chris. I`m saying I would have mucked it unless I had a read on Canine83 and knew he was loose.


plays poker on hard mode
Folding pre-flop is probably the best idea, as said, but I think the bigger mistake was not folding on the flop.

Okay, the pot odds aren't bad but: You've seen a rather large ~pot size bet and a smooth call of it. You've got the backdoor nut flush draw and a gutshot straight draw. Given the very large bet and the call, you can't assume pairing your ace is good. Even if no one can beat a pair right now, if someone has an ace, and you pair it, you're going to be behind.

Next reason is that you shouldn't assume you're going to see the river. The action on the flop has indicated that someone is bound to make it very expensive on the turn, probably denying you odds. What are you looking to hit on the turn that will make you feel comfortable with your hand? Pretty much a 6 only? And on the offchance you do hit it on the turn (~10% chance), you have very little in the way of implied odds because your hand is extremely poorly concealed with 3456 out there. The 6c isn't even very good for you because it puts 3 clubs on the board when one of your opponents could easily have 2 overcard clubs right now. Then you get to lose a lot of money.

Too much risk, not enough reward, IMO.


Rock Star
Yeah, my preflop play is waaaay too loose at the moment and I'm struggling to tighten it up again.

On the turn I figured I had 2's, 6's or A's as my outs, but thinking back I'm going to be outkicked if an A hits, so really I'm just down to 8 outs, or 16% (about 1 in 6) to hit on the turn...

It was lack of time & experience that brought the call on the turn, I knew I had outs, but didn't think it through completely. The biggest mistake was calculating outs as if I was going to see the river when canine's betting was obviously designed to prevent this. In hindsight I think this should have been a fold preflop and a fold on the turn.


The main problem with the pre-flop call here is that your stack isn't really big enough to give you sufficient implied odds. Still, it's not terrible, depending on your style of play.

You'll see the best players in the world (on High Stakes Poker) routinely make calls pre-flop with suited Aces like this, but they tend to have deeper stacks than you do here.

You are getting 3:1 on the flop, but the fact that the second player has already called a pot-sized bet suggests many of your outs are not clean. For example, if a 2 comes, it's hard to even call a big bet as there's good chance you're up against someone with a 6. Similarly, any club. So it's a bit expensive when you haven't really hit the flop that hard... I'd fold it.
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