pocket aces should i have folded preflop

brutus

brutus

Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Total posts
1,028
i have never been so pissed should i have thrown em away


pokerstars Game #8783375513: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2007/03/07 - 12:31:42 (ET)
Table 'Mercury III' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: glueckshans ($2.61 in chips)
Seat 2: szymshark ($1.15 in chips)
Seat 3: Maysenka ($8.09 in chips)
Seat 4: Mr.tasso ($3.46 in chips)
Seat 5: franktropics ($7.97 in chips)
Seat 6: Clark Kennt ($7.26 in chips)
Seat 7: brutus34 ($3.22 in chips)
Seat 8: Zaoth ($9.47 in chips)
Seat 9: 030ZwoBot ($4.99 in chips)
brutus34: posts small blind $0.02
Zaoth: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to brutus34 [Ac Ah]
030ZwoBot: calls $0.05
glueckshans: folds
szymshark: folds
Maysenka: raises $0.20 to $0.25
Mr.tasso: calls $0.25
franktropics: folds
Clark Kennt: folds
brutus34: calls $0.23
Zaoth: raises $0.50 to $0.75
030ZwoBot: folds
Maysenka: raises $2.25 to $3
Mr.tasso: calls $2.75
brutus34: raises $0.22 to $3.22 and is all-in
Zaoth: calls $2.47
Maysenka: calls $0.22
Mr.tasso: calls $0.22
*** FLOP *** [3d Tc Td]
Zaoth: bets $2
Maysenka: raises $2.87 to $4.87 and is all-in
Mr.tasso: calls $0.24 and is all-in
Zaoth: calls $2.87
*** TURN *** [3d Tc Td] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [3d Tc Td Jd] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Zaoth: shows [Qh Qd] (a flush, Queen high)
Maysenka: shows [Kd Kc] (a flush, King high)
Maysenka collected $8.81 from side pot-2
Mr.tasso: mucks hand
Maysenka collected $0.67 from side pot-1
brutus34: mucks hand
Maysenka collected $12.33 from main pot
 
D

drtofu66

Guest
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Total posts
32
If you got all your money in PF with aces, you played it right.

My only regret would be that I didn't have a full stack.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Total posts
497
yeh, only pros know about folding AA preflop. stop giving away secrets!
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Total posts
1,597
I picked up aces and after betting back and forth with 2 other players we all ended up all-in preflop. They both had KQ and the flop came KQX. Guess I should have known better and floded preflop.

(please note the sarcasm)
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
I had 32s once, and i folded to a 3 way all in p/f would have had a straight flush. Im NEVAR folding 32s again :(
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Joined
May 16, 2006
Total posts
6,129
Easy fold pre-flop. Reads on dealer told me the 4-flush of diamonds was coming

p.s. shouldn't this be on the bad beat board?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Should you have folded AA (the BEST starting hand) preflop in a cash game...

Think about what you're asking, brutus. Bad beat, but it happens.
 
M

mischman

Legend
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Total posts
2,959
Why are people posting some of these hands?:confused: :confused:

Should i fold an 8 high flush on the river with huge action.
Should i fold KK preflop?
Should i fold AA preflop?
KQ on KJ10 board, should i bet?
Should i call all in with KK on KJX9 board?
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

Legend
Champion
Joined
May 21, 2005
Total posts
13,112
Awards
9
I had 32s once, and i folded to a 3 way all in p/f would have had a straight flush. Im NEVAR folding 32s again :(


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What Gus said.
 
smells_flushy

smells_flushy

Guest
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Total posts
306
I think we're being a little harsh with the sarcasm on the poor chap :D
 
M

mischman

Legend
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Total posts
2,959
People are being to results orientated. Theyre askign serious questions about if they should fold AA/KK preflop and are getting results orientated when they lose and say they should of folded. I mean come on, you cant look at the past.
AK > AA AIPF, running KK.
Does that mean you fold preflop? Of course not. 94% of the time preflop you will win. You just have to put the bad luck behind you and move on to be a good player
 
brutus

brutus

Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Total posts
1,028
yeah its the best starting hand but after the flop its up for grabs and against this many callers it is very possible for someone to get higher than a pair. i was all in so if i lose im done....if it wasnt for all i had at the table then yeah easy call but for all the marbles on a pair then yeah i think it is possible to fold. in a tourney auto call every time but at ring table and pretty much all thats left of the money i seriously did consider it.

the sarcasm dont bother me cause its very common for someone to think that pockets aces are gold but it is only a pair and after the flop the only thing thats going to help is another ace.

if they wouldve hit a third king or queen it wouldnt have been so bad but to hit four diamonds for flushes is just too much to handle. i know how many times pocket aces get shot down but to have it done like this is tough to handle. so know the shift key is broke and im waiting on the email suspending my chat, if someone dont report me ill be very surprised.
 
thwizzofoz

thwizzofoz

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Total posts
346
My thoughts on pocket AA is, bet it preflop fairly hard, but, not AI. I find that by betting it harder than I would other hands, I clean out the ones who are just hanging on for a flop, the ones who have a borderline hand that with the right flop may make. Once those are gone, you are left with the higher and better hands. And against those, more times than not, I have been successful with AA. You have less risk of a bad beat on a horrible flop.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Brutus,

In ring games, you always, ALWAYS, get as much money in with AA preflop as possible. No matter what kind of action you face.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.908% 24.91% 00.00% 50156 3.60 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 17.756% 17.75% 00.00% 35753 3.60 { KdKh }
Hand 2: 15.315% 15.31% 00.00% 30838 3.60 { QcQd }
Hand 3: 10.253% 10.25% 00.00% 20643 3.60 { JdJh }
Hand 4: 07.918% 07.92% 00.00% 15941 3.60 { ThTs }
Hand 5: 05.823% 05.82% 00.00% 11722 3.60 { 9d9h }
Hand 6: 04.580% 04.58% 00.00% 9220 3.60 { 8c8d }
Hand 7: 04.200% 04.20% 00.00% 8455 3.60 { 7h7s }
Hand 8: 04.452% 04.45% 00.00% 8961 3.60 { 6d6h }
Hand 9: 04.794% 04.79% 00.00% 9651 3.60 { 5c5d }

If you're sitting down at a table with your entire bankroll (did I read that right?) then with all due respect that's your own fault. If you are playing with scared money enough to make you even think about folding preflop with AA, then you're either playing stakes too high, or your BR isn't big enough.

As for
it is only a pair and after the flop the only thing thats going to help is another ace.

, well it just doesn't apply. You got all your money in preflop, and that's that. You did the best you could, and they sucked out! You got your money in as a huge favourite.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.508% 66.38% 00.13% 909850 1816.00 { AdAh }
Hand 1: 17.798% 17.67% 00.13% 242152 1816.00 { KhKs }
Hand 2: 15.694% 15.56% 00.13% 213304 1816.00 { QcQd }

Nothing you can do about this one but chalk it up to bad luck.

I wish you better luck in the future.
 
brutus

brutus

Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Total posts
1,028
it wasnt my entire bankroll but it did cripple it a bit. especially after the pocket queens that twice got beat by ace rag twice by fish that caught the straight. once on the hand i posted and another that tried to bet better to try to get rid of the fishers but they were bound and determined to chase and sure enough hit the straight on a very similar board to the one i posted.

yeah the declining bankroll was part of it but was more of a string of bad luck that made me think about folding than the bankroll. so yeah tilting did have part to do with the thought of folding
 
Last edited:
FuhQuePunk

FuhQuePunk

Guest
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Total posts
5
Pocket A's

I got super burned w/ my aces...
last saturday we had a home game again and i was out within the first 5 min...i got pocket A's my friend had 6 8 off suit.flop came..he went all in.. i of course called w/ my A's.. he had 8's....i winnig till the RIVER...its his other 8..GRRRRR.. made me so mad...
:mad:

i called and raised 500.. he reraised me so i called and reraised.. he called.. then flop.. then he went all...
 
brutus

brutus

Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Total posts
1,028
i hope noone thinks im trying to be a jerk with my responses but i do think that folding is a possibility with this many staying in the hand. if it was just me and one other than yeah instant call but this many there is a very real chance of getting sucked out on. again im not trying to be a jerk so i hope noone takes it that way
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Joined
May 16, 2006
Total posts
6,129
i hope noone thinks im trying to be a jerk with my responses but i do think that folding is a possibility with this many staying in the hand.

Chuck already explained why there's not a good reason for folding AA pre-flop in a cash game. If it's because you've got so much of your bankroll at risk, there's not a good reason to be playing at the limits you're at.

Either way, if you're considering folding AA pre-flop in a cash game, something is wrong. Period. You just got unlucky
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
i hope noone thinks im trying to be a jerk with my responses but i do think that folding is a possibility with this many staying in the hand. if it was just me and one other than yeah instant call but this many there is a very real chance of getting sucked out on. again im not trying to be a jerk so i hope noone takes it that way

brutus there is absolutely NO way we're folding here dude!

look at the numbers again; if we're up against 8 other pairs....

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.908% 24.91% 00.00% 50156 3.60 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 17.756% 17.75% 00.00% 35753 3.60 { KdKh }
Hand 2: 15.315% 15.31% 00.00% 30838 3.60 { QcQd }
Hand 3: 10.253% 10.25% 00.00% 20643 3.60 { JdJh }
Hand 4: 07.918% 07.92% 00.00% 15941 3.60 { ThTs }
Hand 5: 05.823% 05.82% 00.00% 11722 3.60 { 9d9h }
Hand 6: 04.580% 04.58% 00.00% 9220 3.60 { 8c8d }
Hand 7: 04.200% 04.20% 00.00% 8455 3.60 { 7h7s }
Hand 8: 04.452% 04.45% 00.00% 8961 3.60 { 6d6h }
Hand 9: 04.794% 04.79% 00.00% 9651 3.60 { 5c5d }

YES. You would get sucked out on 75.092% of the time there on average, but if that number scares you, then you're playing with scared money. NEVER EVER play with scared money.

I really don't know what else to say. If you can't accept that there's really never a spot to fold AA preflop, well then I'm gonna have to refer to you as toadly from now on ;)
I folded Bullets once with only one guy pushing me all for for just over 400 hundred............I know I know" WTF were you doing ? that is the spot all players want to be in !!!!! Aughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Well yes it is but concider this.I had been on the table for almost 10 hours. I started with 60 bucks 1-2 no limit. Hum says I there is a 20% chance or so I could loose my whole stack...........What is more important the long haul of win win win or the short term of glory and greed ???


I folded them face up and cashed out 370 ahead.

.......

So folding AA preflop to a all in bet after playing live poker for more than 10 hours is stupid........even though I was up more than twice my start stack ?

The wisdom of one can not beat down the wisdom of the many I guess ?

But I would bet if any of them had several long term(12 plus hours) live poker session, winning sessions, get bullets cracked for there entire stack and 12 hours of work..they might think differently. AFter this happened a few times I had enough. When it's getting late NOTHING is gonna take my stack.....

Going home broken and tired is no fun at all. Fulltime players think differenlty I guess............Play for 12 hours and face a 20% chance of losing it all or folding...............Fold please and go home a big winner.

But having long term goals is stupid.............folding Aces pre-flop is stupid...........Yeah OK

If a person has a goal of winning 2 out of three session.he sticks to his goals and meets them.................That is what a fulltime ring player does he wins full time or he can't be a fulltime player.
 
D

drtofu66

Guest
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Total posts
32
i hope noone thinks im trying to be a jerk with my responses but i do think that folding is a possibility with this many staying in the hand. if it was just me and one other than yeah instant call but this many there is a very real chance of getting sucked out on. again im not trying to be a jerk so i hope noone takes it that way

I take no offense. There are just some things you need to understand about PF odds and that is what ChuckTs is pointing out in his post. If anything, this is why you RAISE AA HARD. AA does not fare well multihanded, so you want to discourage people from calling.

Look at it this way: Who will have a tough time calling a raise? Aside from crap hands like 72o, a speculative hand like 98s which most people would like to see a flop with. Who will have a tough time folding to your raise? High pocket pairs like KK and QQ and big aces like AK, AQ, AJ. Want odds? AA is a 4:1 favorite over any other pocket pair and a 12:1 favorite over AK or AQ (or any other Ax hand for that matter).

What hands fare best against AA? Suited connectors, ironically! AA is only a 3:1 favorite over 76s!

The classic Holdem quiz is: if your opponent has AA and you must play for all your chips, which hand would you like to have? The choices are KK, AK, KQs, and 76s. The answer is 76s. You should be thrilled to see your opponents turn over smaller PP's after all your money goes in PF.

On your hand, you were a 66% favorite to win that hand when you got all your money in. You had the best possible situation PREFLOP. Yes, you lost this time. However, the math will even out. The next 999 times you have AA vs QQ and KK all in preflop, you will win roughly 667 times. Are you still folding AA preflop, just because more than one person wants to play with you?
 
brutus

brutus

Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Total posts
1,028
I'm gonna have to refer to you as toadly from now on ;)
lmao ok point taken

youre right i was playing scared after bad beats and shouldnt even still been playing. only reason i was thinking there might be a consideration of folding would be so many in the hand and chances of getting sucked out on. i was breaking one of the golden rules that i myself brought up to someone that was playing scared that you cant played with scared money and then i do it.

again i wasnt trying to be a jerk i just thought that there was reasons that id fold and wanted to see what others thought. then the sarcasm comes in and i was trying to defend against that. if only one or two others in the hand i thought yeah instant call but with so many then there might be reason to fold, and wanted to see if there would be. there is circumstances to fold pocket aces (https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-strategy-33/folded-aa-good-move-78673/#post503203 for example) and i thought this might also be one of those situations its not and ill call it and take the chances.
 
Last edited:
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
You weren't being a jerk at all; if anything, we were being jerks by mocking you :)

The point is that overall, you should never fold AA preflop in a cash game. Sure, if you think that the chances that your aces will hold up in a multiway pot like this have diminished and you don't want to risk your buyin on a chance like that, then toss em. Not that it's the right play, but if you're playing with that much of your bankroll that it scares you off playin em, then dump the hand.

But of course you should never be playing with so much of your bankroll that you let this happen. You should be very willing - no happy - to get your money in preflop with AA when given the chance.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Easy fold - Maysenka obv has pocket jokers here 95% of the time and you're dominated.
 
Folding in Poker
Top