Played wrong? 1-2 NL Live

J

jsh169

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Total posts
890
Awards
1
Chips
0
These guys are being overly nitty preflop, they think to online pokerish, yes it isn't the greatest to limp, but you can get AWAY with it way MORE live. The two games are vastly different, live is a more social, passive game, there is no way I would ever fold this hand otb for 1bb.
 
R

Rjame123

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Total posts
27
Chips
0
TimovieMan I haven't played 1/2 live in a long time. So you are correct about that for sure. I may do some research this weekend and see how 1-2 plays at my casino for a session or two. Should be interesting.
 
S

Sneaky Feet

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Total posts
583
Chips
0
98o is a perfect hand to overlimp

This is 1/2 live, not online.
If you're folding a speculative hand OTB on a passive table for 1BB, then you're a nit.

I'll overlimp this 100% of the time. Even with a shorter stack.

You too?
For 1BB OTB, are you serious???
It's a snap-call in my book.

I'm still folding here even though live is a lot looser. After all just because live is being played this way doesn't mean it's the right way to play. 98o on the button against 1 I'm calling, 2 I'm raising, but against 3? Iron Maiden said it best man. Runnn tooo the hillllls!!!

I actually think this is a perfect example as to why you shouldn't be playing this hand against 3 limpers. Social or not when we sit at a table to play we're there to take everyone's money period. I'm going to give myself the best chance to do that by playing the best lines I can with the appropriate cards for the circumstance.

Runnn fooorrr your life!!! Great song : )

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86URGgqONvA
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
I'm still folding here even though live is a lot looser. After all just because live is being played this way doesn't mean it's the right way to play. 98o on the button against 1 I'm calling, 2 I'm raising, but against 3? Iron Maiden said it best man. Runnn tooo the hillllls!!!
You're thinking about this backwards! The more people in the pot, the more you should play hands like this! Especially in position and for only 1BB.

The idea with a speculative hand like this is to flop big (trips and straights). With more people in the pot, your chances to get paid off increase when you hit (and the pot will be larger because there will be more dead money in it by the time you get to the river).
We're not winning by making a pair here. We'll be folding all unfavourable flops. But when we do hit (and hit bigtime), then I want everybody in the hand, so more people can pay us off...


Related to this: suppose you're in a 9-handed game and UTG minraises and six people call.
You're in the BB with 72o, the worst hand in the deck. But the odds are 15-1 and you're closing the action. You should ABSOLUTELY call 1BB.
You'll be folding most flops, but occasionally you'll hit a 772 flop, or some other flop that gives you a monster. When that happens you'll be very happy that more people are there to pay you off.



It's not so much about how loose the games are, but what odds you're getting on entering the pot. The better those odds, the weaker your hand can be.
 
Last edited:
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
You're missing the point. You can't limp 98o in any position profitably with 44bb effective, especially with high rake.
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
I'm not sure I understand here. 4 see the pot, I assume everyone limps, but there's 10 in the pot? Is there an ante? How many are seated at the table? That's my first question.
BB folded as their option?
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
You're missing the point. You can't limp 98o in any position profitably with 44bb effective, especially with high rake.
I don't play cash games, but would this be a spot to raise PF on the button vs a few limpers and play the hand in position?

Or is it just better to fold?
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
5
You're missing the point. You can't limp 98o in any position profitably with 44bb effective, especially with high rake.

Ok you can stop now it's not that bad. It's not a pfr or anything additionally live is not online. It's literally fine. I obviously have issues with him sitting 44bb deep but this is still fine.

Quite curious why you think it's incorrect?
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Am I wrong in saying the shorter our stack the tighter our range should be? And even tighter as rake increases? I'm not even sure I'd have a limp range this short.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
5
Am I wrong in saying the shorter our stack the tighter our range should be? And even tighter as rake increases? I'm not even sure I'd have a limp range this short.

I agree with the principle that our range should get tighter as we get shorter but if you don't have a limp range live regardless of stack size your making a tremendous error. Live the goal is to see a ton of flops for cheap it's not very similar to onlinw
 
S

Sneaky Feet

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Total posts
583
Chips
0
BB folded as their option?

If that's the case, plus all the other comments about live games, I seriously gotta get me some live action! Damn!!!! Lol

That said I do play a regular live tournament on Monday nights. It's more like a live sit and go. The play is way softer but I'm still playing the same way. Social? Absolutely! But I'm still taking villains money : )
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
You're missing the point. You can't limp 98o in any position profitably with 44bb effective, especially with high rake.

What the hell is so wrong with having 44bb lol???? The max buy-in on 1-2 is 50BB. (Morongo Casino & Resort)
But the reality of it is 98o has just as good of odds in a 10.00$ PF flop as the other 4 limpers.

I can decide what play I make depending on what the flop looks like.
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
If that's the case, plus all the other comments about live games, I seriously gotta get me some live action! Damn!!!! Lol

That said I do play a regular live tournament on Monday nights. It's more like a live sit and go. The play is way softer but I'm still playing the same way. Social? Absolutely! But I'm still taking villains money : )

Mistake I forgot how many were in this hand I am thinking though, maybe 4 or 5 players. And no the BB did not fold. He was in the pot.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Not sure I can agree. <50bb is too short to limp a bunch of hands for cheap flops imo.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
What the hell is so wrong with having 44bb lol???? The max buy-in on 1-2 is 50BB. (Morongo Casino & Resort)
But the reality of it is 98o has just as good of odds in a 10.00$ PF flop as the other 4 limpers.

I can decide what play I make depending on what the flop looks like.

The max BI is $100?? What's the rake?
 
S

Sneaky Feet

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Total posts
583
Chips
0
What the hell is so wrong with having 44bb lol???? The max buy-in on 1-2 is 50BB. (Morongo Casino & Resort)
But the reality of it is 98o has just as good of odds in a 10.00$ PF flop as the other 4 limpers.

I can decide what play I make depending on what the flop looks like.

I think I'm finding a new casino dude.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
I don't really know but from what I heard it is 4$ for any pot over 15$. I'll ask on my next visit.

Holy shit. I hope for your sake that isn't true. Is that even beatable long term? Limping anything can't possibly be correct with that cap and rake.
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
Holy shit. I hope for your sake that isn't true. Is that even beatable long term? Limping anything can't possibly be correct with that cap and rake.

I'm going there tomorrow. I'm going to find out exactly what there rakes are for the amount of people in the hand the money in the pot. I'll see. Yeah, that does sound ****ing outrageous god damn lol. Might as well just start paying there bills well I'm at it.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
5
Couple of things, I play in unraked games so that's 1 difference

2, your only calling 1bb not a open raise of 3-4bb and your guaranteed to be going 5 ways. How many bb you suggest we have to call this since your argument says we are too short right now


It's live, 5 way pot you literally double up every time you hit
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
Ok you can stop now it's not that bad. It's not a pfr or anything additionally live is not online. It's literally fine. I obviously have issues with him sitting 44bb deep but this is still fine.

Quite curious why you think it's incorrect?

Looking forward to my test this weekend sir. (Sunday) I am hoping your for real about this man. And if you aren't that is cool bro.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Couple of things, I play in unraked games so that's 1 difference

2, your only calling 1bb not a open raise of 3-4bb and your guaranteed to be going 5 ways. How many bb you suggest we have to call this since your argument says we are too short right now


It's live, 5 way pot you literally double up every time you hit

Your live games must be considerably better than mine then.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
5
How much bb do you need preflop for this to be profitable? I honestly am not trolling I'm just really interested to know what's the cut off point here
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
It depends. There is no hard and fast cut off point. We obv don't need to be as deep as the table stacks off lighter but that's still a huge generalization. OP didn't give any reads at all so I was discussing with the assumption that it's an average table, which in my town isn't just throwing stacks around. And if the rake actually is $4 for pots over $15 then we REALLY need to be assured we get doubled or tripled up when we limp.

The table has to be significantly above average for me to think this is okay. Or at the very least a gigantic whale has to have limped in as well. OP gave no indication that either was true.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
Related to this: suppose you're in a 9-handed game and UTG minraises and six people call.
You're in the BB with 72o, the worst hand in the deck. But the odds are 15-1 and you're closing the action. You should ABSOLUTELY call 1BB.
You'll be folding most flops, but occasionally you'll hit a 772 flop, or some other flop that gives you a monster. When that happens you'll be very happy that more people are there to pay you off.

This is a big misconception that a lot of players make. You are just going to flop a marginal hand post too often and compound your mistake of calling a raise preflop with 72o. I see live players do this all the time in the SB and they call with 92s pre because of pot odds and they chalk it up as a bad beat when someone makes a better flush or 2 pair.

I agree with Mr. Sandbag here, 98o with 44BB in a high rake live game is almost never going to be profitable. If it were 100bb effective stacks then sure, limp.
 
Organize a Home Poker Game
Top