$5 NLHE Full Ring: What would you do on Flop here with 99?

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

What would you do on the flop here? On the turn I should of put Button all in when betting but would you bet flop here and if so how much?


PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 100 BB
CO: 45 BB
BTN: 51.4 BB
SB: 99 BB
BB: 88.4 BB
Hero (UTG): 104.2 BB
UTG+1: 105.6 BB
MP: 62.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 9:diamond: 9:spade:

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, UTG+1 calls 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (16 BB, 4 players) Q:heart: 2:heart: 9:heart:
Hero bets 10.8 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 10.8 BB

Turn: (37.6 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
Hero bets 25.2 BB, BTN raises to 37.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (112 BB, 2 players) A:diamond:

 

[SPYDER1998]

I would probably bet big on the flop to get value from Qx and Flush draws. on the turn if a heart comes i would check call or if its not a heart i would bet about half pot to keep the flush draws and Qx hands or in that case where ACE comes on the turn i would probably go all in or check all in.

 

[Blackchipp]

when i see the tree of a kind maybe should go all in... but if they have 2 hearths u probably in trobble...

 

[Shumkoolie]

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 9♦ 9♠

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, UTG+1 calls 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (16 BB, 4 players) Q♥ 2♥ 9♥
Hero bets 10.8 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 10.8 BB

I like the bet sizing here, though had you gone up to even 12BB here, that would have been fine as well. The good news here is you only got one caller and on a board like this, you want to build a pot as quickly as possible as it's not VERY likely they've flopped a flush. Had they did, you have boat re-draws here.

You're only in horrible shape against QQ, but you're never folding middle set here.

Turn: (37.6 BB, 2 players) A♠
Hero bets 25.2 BB, BTN raises to 37.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (112 BB, 2 players) A♦

I think your sizing here is fine as well. Villain has a 1 SPR here, so MAYBE they call here, but not 100% sure.

As played, I think I would have probably done just about the same thing. Your sizing on all streets is really good, and you succeeded in building a pot with a monster hand, which is what should be done.

But man, if they have AQ, I'm throwing up here.

 

[loafaBREAD]

I like your flop and turn bets in general, though turn should just become a shove.

But if you wanted to examine the hands he raises with let's see what we're up against...

Flopped flushes for a decently wide BU over calling range are around 14.

If V is also calling with Ax unsuited combos, he could have the A of hearts those are another 6 combos.

Perhaps V doesn't shove his Ace high made flushes ott... if that's the case then there are far fewer flushes to worry about and it becomes a call. But with his stack depth he likely is raising them all here.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Lol, everybody said bet big on the flop. It just shows how so many people still don't understand range composition. This board is really bad for Hero's range, as such he should be playing mostly check. If hero decides to bet he should use very small sizing, like 25% or 33%.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

I would probably bet big on the flop to get value from Qx and Flush draws. on the turn if a heart comes i would check call or if its not a heart i would bet about half pot to keep the flush draws and Qx hands or in that case where ACE comes on the turn i would probably go all in or check all in.

Makes sense

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

when i see the tree of a kind maybe should go all in... but if they have 2 hearths u probably in trobble...

Yeah I think an all in is only going to get called by a flush.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

I like the bet sizing here, though had you gone up to even 12BB here, that would have been fine as well. The good news here is you only got one caller and on a board like this, you want to build a pot as quickly as possible as it's not VERY likely they've flopped a flush. Had they did, you have boat re-draws here.

You're only in horrible shape against QQ, but you're never folding middle set here.




I think your sizing here is fine as well. Villain has a 1 SPR here, so MAYBE they call here, but not 100% sure.

As played, I think I would have probably done just about the same thing. Your sizing on all streets is really good, and you succeeded in building a pot with a monster hand, which is what should be done.

But man, if they have AQ, I'm throwing up here.

Thanks for the feedback. Don't worry villian didn't have AQ

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

Lol, everybody said bet big on the flop. It just shows how so many people still don't understand range composition. This board is really bad for Hero's range, as such he should be playing mostly check. If hero decides to bet he should use very small sizing, like 25% or 33%.

Not sure how the board is bad for my range as the preflop aggressor from utg my range is strong and certainly includes suited broadways for the flush, overpairs with and without flushdraws, my range could also pocket queens and nines for sets and some combinations for straight draws. I believe betting small here could be costly as it makes it cheap for draws to call and with each successive call the odds for the villians get better. This shaped my decision to bet larger to charge draws to come along, plus the fact I have as many draws as there are to the flush.

 

[300HPGOD]

Lol, everybody said bet big on the flop. It just shows how so many people still don't understand range composition. This board is really bad for Hero's range, as such he should be playing mostly check. If hero decides to bet he should use very small sizing, like 25% or 33%.

I am an idiot so could you explain a bit more on why you would check here? I assume you are not checking with the intention of check raising so we would be check calling in this spot since I couldnt fathom check folding here.

Next, since we are checking 99 would you be checking AA without the ace of hearts? If so are you checking all hands that do not have a heart in them? What are you doing with a flopped flush here?

Then if we check and everyone happens to check behind us on the flop and a heart does come on the turn what are you doing then? I assume if you checked the flop then you are checking the turn in that spot. Are you check folding then?

 

[liuouhgkres]

I am an idiot so could you explain a bit more on why you would check here? I assume you are not checking with the intention of check raising so we would be check calling in this spot since I couldnt fathom check folding here.

Next, since we are checking 99 would you be checking AA without the ace of hearts? If so are you checking all hands that do not have a heart in them? What are you doing with a flopped flush here?

Then if we check and everyone happens to check behind us on the flop and a heart does come on the turn what are you doing then? I assume if you checked the flop then you are checking the turn in that spot. Are you check folding then?

Check-call and check-raise both are viable, but the point is we need to protect our very wide checking range. If you bet all your strong hands here, then what will happen when you check and villain bets? This is actually very common leak of low stakes players. They check-fold a lot, because they don't protect their checking range with good hands. So, whenever you see monotone boards where villains can have a lot of flushes and some lower sets, you just mostly check. And here, against 3 players, I would just check everything.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

Check-call and check-raise both are viable, but the point is we need to protect our very wide checking range. If you bet all your strong hands here, then what will happen when you check and villain bets? This is actually very common leak of low stakes players. They check-fold a lot, because they don't protect their checking range with good hands. So, whenever you see monotone boards where villains can have a lot of flushes and some lower sets, you just mostly check. And here, against 3 players, I would just check everything.

Sounds very good but totally wrong unfortunately. Having sent the hand too a few poker coaches betting here around the sizing used is the best line especially as we are multiway.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Sounds very good but totally wrong unfortunately. Having sent the hand too a few poker coaches betting here around the sizing used is the best line especially as we are multiway.

I doubt it, but I also will ask my coach to see if I'm wrong. He is 500z player, I wrote to him in discord. Will report back when he writes.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

I doubt it, but I also will ask my coach to see if I'm wrong. He is 500z player, I wrote to him in discord. Will report back when he writes.

Well I ran the hand past Jonathan Little and Sky Matsuhashi who both agree with the bet and sizing.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Well I ran the hand past Jonathan Little and Sky Matsuhashi who both agree with the bet and sizing.

I don't trust Jonathan Little, he is terribly outdated and I don't know about Sky Matsuhashi. My coach didn't reply, but two 200z players replied and they prefer range check. I'm very confident in this, because I've worked with solver on similar spots before. Even against one player on monotone boards OOP player tends to have very small betting range with a small sizing.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

I don't trust Jonathan Little, he is terribly outdated and I don't know about Sky Matsuhashi. My coach didn't reply, but two 200z players replied and they prefer range check. I'm very confident in this, because I've worked with solver on similar spots before. Even against one player on monotone boards OOP player tends to have very small betting range with a small sizing.

Ok so you don't trust the guy who runs one of the biggest coaching sites in the world who keeps himself upto date with the game. Just cos two 200z players said they prefer a check doesn't mean A. they are good or B. they are right. You've worked with solvers in similar spots? Really? It's a multiway pot on the flop, there is a reason most solvers only do heads up pots the output after that is generally rubbish. So I've looked at it as if it was heads up hand in a solver. Sorry to burst your bubble but with 99 it wants to bet 65% pot 52% of the time, bet 33% pot 41.6% of the time and check 6.37% of the time. If we talk about OOP entire range the solver only wants us to check 10.8% of the time giving us a 89.2% betting range which is hardly small.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Ok so you don't trust the guy who runs one of the biggest coaching sites in the world who keeps himself upto date with the game. Just cos two 200z players said they prefer a check doesn't mean A. they are good or B. they are right. You've worked with solvers in similar spots? Really? It's a multiway pot on the flop, there is a reason most solvers only do heads up pots the output after that is generally rubbish. So I've looked at it as if it was heads up hand in a solver. Sorry to burst your bubble but with 99 it wants to bet 65% pot 52% of the time, bet 33% pot 41.6% of the time and check 6.37% of the time. If we talk about OOP entire range the solver only wants us to check 10.8% of the time giving us a 89.2% betting range which is hardly small.

I don' want to get into argument about coaches, but I can't take Jonathan Little seriously. He is not playing even at midstakes and he doesn't look up to date at all whenever I watch his vidies. But, hey, I'm happy to accept my mistake. I've looked into monotone boards against one player, but we can extrapolate from there. Against multiple players our betting range should be even smaller. Can you post screenshots from a solver, I'm really curious about it?

 

[Jrobbz10]

I like the idea of GTO play but I have more success with exploitative play. With no information on the villain I'm checking the turn because I'm cautious about the flush on the board. If I'm playing against someone who I know likes to bluff wet boards I'm check calling or check raising. If he shoves on the turn after I check I'm most certainly calling. If his standard bet sizing when he has the nuts is 2/3 I'm check folding if he stays true to that bet sizing. If I check and he bets 1/3 I'm for sure raising. Call, call, shove from a LAG tells me he missed the flop or he showed up with the nuts. Call, call, shove from an ABC player or a TAG or fish tells me he was banking value from your 2/3 pot bets and extracted maximum value from you whether you call on the river or not. I would run the equity of your 99 on flopzilla against villain's probable range (assuming you have info on him) and see what it says. Assuming villain was a LAG I think you took a great line.

 

[zuker]

Probability someone make flash on flop less than 2%. So bet at last 75%. Same on turn. River push.

 

[TheBigFinn]

What would you do on the flop here? On the turn I should of put Button all in when betting but would you bet flop here and if so how much?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
MP+1: 100 BB
CO: 45 BB
BTN: 51.4 BB
SB: 99 BB
BB: 88.4 BB
Hero (UTG): 104.2 BB
UTG+1: 105.6 BB
MP: 62.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 9♦ 9♠

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, UTG+1 calls 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold

99 is the bottom of the range for a UTG open, and it must be a heck of a game to get 4 callers.

=Flop: (16 BB, 4 players) Q♥ 2♥ 9♥
Hero bets 10.8 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 10.8 BB

The question I like to ask myself is "What does Villain think Hero has?" It looks more like a flush or flush draw than trips. I looks the same for Villain. I like the CB bet, but Hero may be behind

=Turn: (37.6 BB, 2 players) A♠
Hero bets 25.2 BB, BTN raises to 37.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12 BB

The Ace is a good card for Hero. AA is unlikely for Villain and any other Ace, gives Villain second best. That said she either has the flush or she doesn't and she won't fold it. Betting the turn charges draws which are much more likely. Her has to call the shove.

=River: (112 BB, 2 players) A♦

The river sucks for Hero, All of those second best hands are now best.

 

[tokentalk]

On coordinated flops in multi way situation, either you need to check for pot control or bet big to price out draws. 2/3rds bet is decent, but I would consider pot sized bet or even up to 1.5 times pot.

 

[Vilgeoforc]

On the flop, you could put 3/4 of the pot, because everyone thinks from a flash draw, but there are also straight draws and gatshots, and you need to protect yourself from them. A check-call solution is also possible, but we give the fate of our hand to the opponent. A check-raise is possible, but only against an aggressive opponent, if he plays a check, then we will not get a set payment and it will be difficult for us to spin the pot to all-in on the turn and river. I like your betting and your game led to a push, and in my opinion-this is because of the good size of the bets.

 

[gustav197poker]

Ok too many answers in this hand, so maybe my input won't contribute anything new. Anyway my opinion.
You are playing with an effective stack of 51bb. The standard strategy here is to form a high SPR to achieve a little more playability post flop, although possibly in a game like this, the money will end up completely in the pot. As it finally happened.
The hero opening is completely exploitative on this specific table. We can see that anyway several followed you, so actually choosing a larger size would not change this dynamic too much.
When you polarized bet on the flop you are representing some major blocker, such as Ah and Kh. And to be exact AA and KK who wanted to print all the value from preflop.
The turn almost played itself. You're ahead most of the time here. I'm sure if you lost your hand it was just a bad beat.
Greetings.

 

[Casey55]

Not sure how the board is bad for my range as the preflop aggressor from utg my range is strong and certainly includes suited broadways for the flush, overpairs with and without flushdraws, my range could also pocket queens and nines for sets and some combinations for straight draws. I believe betting small here could be costly as it makes it cheap for draws to call and with each successive call the odds for the villians get better. This shaped my decision to bet larger to charge draws to come along, plus the fact I have as many draws as there are to the flush.

I think this board is bad for Hero's range, I think this board nails BTN's and possibly other positions range aswell. BTN can have 99, Q9 and possibly 22, Hero should not have Q9 or 22 , I think villains especially on BTN can have generally more combos of decent made flushes on the flop aswell. I think yes hero needs to be checking a large portion of the time but he has many other hands that would be doing this I think 99 is a bet and a large bet since the flop is very co-ordinated and is likely to nail some villains ranges here. I think heros flop bet is fine I really think he could have gone larger possibly. On the turn I think villain can have called flop with a good heart, maybe Qx. not quite sure but I think the turn could just be a shove.