S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
You're giving up a street of value by checking.
3 streets of value is higher than 2 streets of value by 1 street.
There's your maths.
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
ITT A short stacking 5NL player that knows it all due too his sooper program. Also giving free cards is betting then value betting against fish at 5NL. Who woulda thunk it??
Why aren't you crushing 10/20 on Bovada with all this wisdom?
Why aren't you crushing 10/20 on Bovada with all this wisdom?
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
because it is max value
yeah, I have a way to potential crushing 10/20 or higher at least.
but seem like you have is posting.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
oh you must be genius
Top pair , top kicker , 3 way pot play 3 street value...multiway potNot to say out of position!
you must be GENIUS!
I would very be willing to know you post your TPTK out of position, 3 street value ,multi way pot 100% wins !
I am very eager to learn your ability how to do that!
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IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Well for one with an SPR of 3.5 we are only looking to GII with 2 streets of value to get stacks in. Your program doesn't account for the fact that 5NL zone on Bovada players are never folding Kx/9x on this flop to a short stacker.
atlantafalcons0
Legend
Silver Level
Never say never.
I would think some players would fold 9x on this flop to a short stacker.
S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
My bad, I forgot this was a shortstacker
S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
This is an entertaining thread.
Sorry you didn't like my advice. Enjoy 5nl, you'll be there for a while.
Edit: I also just noticed you put the STD DEV at 360 for the full stack. That's where you're getting such strange results from. Even PLO doesn't get anywhere near that. 100 is probably fine for 6 max. Although if you're checking AK there then your STD DEV is probably less than that.
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IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Thats what happens when someone short stacking 5NL post a hand then insults everyone that tries to help them. Happens everytime in a XXPPX or whatever thread.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
OK here is a standard for good advice
CC Member – What are the most common areas for improvement among break-even and losing cash game players at NL10 and below?
PG – I think that the concept of “why” (as I like to call it) is the most important. You absolutely must know why you are making every play you make, and you need to be able to explain it to me if I ask you.
Don’t bet the turn “because you have top pair” or cbet the flop “because you can’t win at showdown.”
You need to know what you are trying to accomplish with each and every play you make, and you need to be able to verbalize it in a way that allows you to compare it to another option.
If I think you should slow play the flop and when I ask why you want to raise- if you say “because I have top set,” how can I counter that argument?
see all the replies...
what piece of advice fit the value here, in my opinion Nothing!
https://www.cardschat.com/f49/phil-galfond-omgclayaiken-interview-answers-members-240519/
if you guys think your reply holds the value here, so be it!
reply 1 -- nothing value
reply 2 - nothing value
not to say some reply here is trying to misleading to the error side.
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IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
John gave you a perfectly acceptable answer. He said you should not rely on these tools and why you should not rely on them. What more should he say? The tools you use are to help players achieve GTO play against other good winning regs which is not going to help you at 5NL where exploiting bad players will net you the most profit.
Sevens reply may not be that good but it has merits. You are cutting into your winrate(If you are a winning player) by short stacking.
Your argument is that short stacking is less variance which is true. Both people are right in this case and it is a matter of opinion and most people that want to make money playing poker care about having the largest winrate possible while experiencing variance. Not to avoid variance. Have to just agree to disagree with Seven but Johns answer is not a matter of opinion, its a fact.
Sevens reply may not be that good but it has merits. You are cutting into your winrate(If you are a winning player) by short stacking.
Your argument is that short stacking is less variance which is true. Both people are right in this case and it is a matter of opinion and most people that want to make money playing poker care about having the largest winrate possible while experiencing variance. Not to avoid variance. Have to just agree to disagree with Seven but Johns answer is not a matter of opinion, its a fact.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
my question on the thread is
just want to ask
why the correct move here is check? not bet?
so said, not using tools because tools is wrong,
betting is right
what shall I say...like PG's words
giving words...which not a clear comparable way.
besides John's words the tools are wrong... so at this case the tool is right.
and John simply say, the tools are wrong, so...what, John calculated ...tools' result and his result, No, I doubt.
so it is called help, it has merits, this is what called Joke.
no need to say...I ask
just want to ask
why the correct move here is check? not bet?
some one replied you need to buyin 100BB what a joke here.
and you think players come here for help.
yes, help...if you called that help, keeps it for your own.
it is never in any way called help, it someway called "misleading"
from first page till here
I did not see anyone besides me...seriously issue the EV in a digital , mathematically clearly , verbal way
and make a conclusion, check is better or betting is better. there for check /bet is the correct move.
you did, John did, any other one comes help did, yes, you are all helpful!
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IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Yeah, this is a very common spot and it is kind of sad you have to consult a bot on how to play it. But, ok, go ahead with the strategy of short stacking 5NL zone while attempting to be balanced in an unknown pool of fish. You will never beat the rake.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
I consult HUMAN WISDOM. and bunch of them.
that software collects ... huge huge number of data.
OBV better than ANYONE Replied HERE, so , if you call that bot, then You are worse than a bot!
PS: I have already beat the rakes+ player pool.
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Right.... Thats why you play play money poker and 5NL while using hundreds of dollars worth of programs. You can have all the software in the world but if you don't know how/when too use it, it is worthless.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
Playmoney poker
did you forget I know my NL25 BB/100 hands better than yours , several months ago.
just let you know the fact that winning rate will be higher, and not lower.
yeah, you may call it play money.
I won money every month, yeah obv in your eyes , it is worthless. and obv no not your money, worthless.
when and how to use it, at least I know better than you, based on what you replied here!
Yeah, play your worthless NL25 poker, see you will beat the rakes in the future.
S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
Phil Galfond is saying do not bet just because you have top pair.
He is saying bet because worse hands will call you or because better hands will fold. That is the reasoning he is looking for.
In this situation, you can be called by many many worse hands. So just GII.
I know Iplay and in particular I have no credentials, although we play higher limits than you. But John is a very well respected player and coach. If you ignore his advice then you really are quite silly. You're suggesting you know better than him.
He is saying bet because worse hands will call you or because better hands will fold. That is the reasoning he is looking for.
In this situation, you can be called by many many worse hands. So just GII.
I know Iplay and in particular I have no credentials, although we play higher limits than you. But John is a very well respected player and coach. If you ignore his advice then you really are quite silly. You're suggesting you know better than him.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
this clearly?
You need to know what you are trying to accomplish with each and every play you make, and you need to be able to verbalize it in a way that allows you to compare it to another option.
do not say you make the weak hands call or strong hands call.
convert them into EV
the check EV is how much
the betting EV is how much
it is caller verbalized it in a way to allows you to compare it to another option
did I say clearly.
So
This is the limit I played online
you guys beat me humm.
this is the limit I play, I crushed it already.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...he-6-max-bovada-zoom-275760/post-2772656.html
you think I only Play NL5 and play money Humm
the situation is ...post NL5 hands will not get value advice, there makes no sense to post NL50 or NL100 hands to discuss.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
BTW:
in my eyes, if you really think you are help.
just post
through my caculation
the checking move , EV in big blinds is ___
the betting mover, EV in big blinds is ___
so my conclusion , checking/betting is a correct one.
or else, in my eyes, these replies are all non sense bla bla bla.
it is never be called help.
S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
There is no exact EV for each move. We are playing against people, there can be no absolutes and quantifying moves precisely (especially the effect of our future image) is not possible. How do you not understand that this is villain dependent? At 5nl the villains are not good enough to warrant balancing your range.
The EV of checking or betting depends on at least a couple of factors.
1. How often are your opponents going to stack off with hands you beat if you bet.
2. Does checking TPTK in this scenario balance your checking range enough to make future hands more profitable.
You are yet to describe why you thinking checking is better.
XXPXXP
Legend
Silver Level
it looks like I am helping you
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...5-nlhe-6-max-ak-flop-302937/post-3227839.html
I calculated did you read?
you said there is no exactly EV
I calculated.. I have equation, I know how to do it...takes hours.
just let you know...question1 , question 2 , it is part of the situation in my calculation!
and I don't need to show, your level is not enough for me to share.
I did it. checking is better
or you are unable to compare 7.67BB EV is greater than 7.211BB
or from software's results 7.58> 7.66?
yeah. do not reply to this thread anymore.
there is no more to discuss here!
BTW:
there is no exactly EV
and
player is unable to calculate the exactly EV through advanced maths
are totally, and absolutely two different thing
if you not mind read PG's words again.
________________
PG – Tough questions. I’ll do my best!
I think for most small stakes players, they’d do best to focus on one game. The main benefit of being able to play multiple game types is that it gives you more tables to choose from. When you’re playing small stakes, you should have enough tables anytime you want, so don’t slow your growth in your main game by adding others.
Cash games and tournaments have far different skill sets. I think that the highest stakes cash games are much harder to succeed in, but that doesn’t mean that they are more skillful games.
Since there’s more postflop play in cash games, they require more deductive logic and advanced mathematics.
_________________________________________________________________
In my eyes, it is the problem of you are unable to calculate the exactly EV and to say there is no Exact EV
this is kind of misleading???
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