$2 NL HE 6-max: Set KK's fold on the turn(?!) Is this posible!?

georgi krastev

georgi krastev

Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Total posts
4,304
Awards
4
BG
Chips
295
Game
Hold'em
Game Format
No Limit
Stakes
$.01/$.02
Table Format
6-max (6 seats)
VP$IP
19
PFR
11
Currency
$
(This stats for villain is from 125 hands).

My question is the following: It is posible such a big bet/re-raise on the turn with just a drow? (I'm in stunned yet.)

 
S

Station_Master

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2022
Total posts
1,129
Awards
1
GB
Chips
191
This is just a cooler, yes he is unlikely to be on a draw but could be raising worse, obviously you have to call when you only lose to 1 combo
 
Canaldo Kao

Canaldo Kao

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Total posts
632
Awards
1
BR
Chips
201
Every move was fair for both sides, when it's like that there's no way to fold and in the other player's mind they'll never imagine that the opponent has a square!:unsure::unsure:
 
A

Ace of Spad3s

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 27, 2023
Total posts
75
NL
Chips
27
Cooler. Really stinks this one but there is no way you should fold that hand here. You win the hand most of the time having top set on a board like this.

Only thing I would have done differently is shove after being reraised on the flop.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,036
Awards
1
Chips
208
Preflop
4X is a very large open, but its ok to use that size from SB, because you want to charge the opponent to take position on you. If you only use this sizing with very strong hands like KK, then you are giving away a bet sizing tell though. This is just something to consider, especially if you move up.

Flop
Great flop obviously, and betting for value is certainly fine. Getting raised, when we have the nuts, is a dream situation. Its a draw heavy board, and for that reason I prefer to fastplay and put in a 3-bet, so I can jam the turn and deny any implied odds to draws on the river.

Turn
As played I dont like leading the turn. The whole reason, why you might decide to slowplay the flop is to allow him to continue bluffing or value own himself. And the way to do that is to check to him again. With the paired board you also dont need to worry about draws, so now I would just check-call again and then decide, if I want to check or lead on the river. As played you have an easy call. Whenever we beat even just some value, we absolutely can not fold. Here you beat everything but 33, and his stack-off range is not only quads. He can also have a least KQ, which is 3 times as many combos as 33. And depending on his preflop strategy maybe also QQ, K3 and Q3. Or maybe he raised a hand like A3 on the flop for no reason and turned trips. So not only do you have to call, you should also be very happy, that he raised, because most of the time he is drawing dead, or he has 1 out.

Results
As others have said this is just a setup or cooler hand. These are part of the game, and in the long run they dont matter, because someone else will run top boat into your quads just as often as the opposite, and then they will also lose all their money to you.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
2,474
Awards
3
BR
Chips
242
(This stats for villain is from 125 hands).

My question is the following: It is posible such a big bet/re-raise on the turn with just a drow? (I'm in stunned yet.)

I think your sizing preflop is fine: this is NLHE 2 and preflop sizings won't make a huge difference. The way the hand was played was completely fine, these things will happen from time to time and if we are folding a Top Full House at NLHE 2 we are overfolding. Don't worry about it, you are a good player and you will get whatever you want of poker. Keep on playing and in time these things won't do a dint to you.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,036
Awards
1
Chips
208
Obviously i'm not, yet... If i can't fold a top set, what kind of player i'm...
Presumably this is a joke? There are situations in poker, where it would be a huge mistake to not lose all your chips, and this was such a situation. It might look cool on TV, when someone make a big hero fold and is right. But what we dont see (or quickly forget) are all those hands, where someone try to do this and are wrong.

 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Total posts
4,304
Awards
4
BG
Chips
295
Presumably this is a joke?
No, is not.

(Even if I win the wsop I can't consider myself as a good player.)

Let's get to the point; If this post is a consequence of my reaction to this post, it just struck me as funny that a supposedly impossible fold (in this case a set of kings) is possible...

Well, here's an example that's not a TOP set, but it's a sick fold:

 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,036
Awards
1
Chips
208
Well, here's an example that's not a TOP set, but it's a sick fold:
Not really, since the hand is 300BB deep rather than the more standard 100BB as in your hand. And just as importantly there are far more combos, which Hero lose to. In your hand you lost to 33, which was 1 combo. Here Hero lost to JJ (1), KK (3), KJ (6), J6 (2) and J3 (6) for a total of 18 combos. Most likely the opponent cant have J6 or J3, because he is a TAG opening UTG. But that still leave 10 realistic combos, which Hero lose to. If Hero is this hand had KK instead of 66, it would be a call, as in your hand. But 66 is a fairly easy fold because of the realistic range, which Villain is showing on the river.
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Total posts
4,304
Awards
4
BG
Chips
295
O, dear! He (this reg) is overbeting the pot - how could i have missed this (I must have been in a big tilt)... It seemed like a big bet during the game... but now in retrospect it's even bigger. The difference between the two bets is 1.39...

  407
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Total posts
4,304
Awards
4
BG
Chips
295
I was very surprised by this bet of his on the turn... I thought: so what is he doing, he is losing... But actually he was winning... (How stupid I am) :LOL:
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,036
Awards
1
Chips
208
Its not an overbet. The size of the pot, after he called your bet, was 0,98 + 2 X 0,45 = 1,88, and he then jammed for 1,20 more, which is around 60% pot. This is a completely normal betsize, which you only needed 28% equity to call.
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Total posts
4,304
Awards
4
BG
Chips
295
He overbet with 0.41... i think. (imo)

But that doesn't matter anymore... :)
 
M

mclay

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Total posts
712
Awards
3
KZ
Chips
72
There is simply no point in analyzing hands with nl2, the game there is simply devoid of common sense.:p
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
2,474
Awards
3
BR
Chips
242
He overbet with 0.41... i think. (imo)

But that doesn't matter anymore... :)
Move on mate. These things happen and most important is that you are seeking for improvement here on the forum. NLHE 2 is worth analysis this is why we are here. I think that you shouldn't be playing Zoom having such small balance/bankroll. To play Zoom you must have at least 20 buy-ins, because there are huge ups and downs.
Stop being too modest. You are a good player, period. Have some confidence and don't try to act humble as you are a rookie that has little knowledge of poker: you know enough to beat NLHE 2, all you need is a bit of patience and self-control. Nothing wrong with your plays, the fact is that you don't own a proper bankroll to be playing Zoom (as you posted in your challenge thread), but you have enough to play a single regular table, specially Full Ring where you can have more profits opening only nutted hands from EP and waiting for optimal spots. The only thing is that Full Ring tables are slower than 6-MAX and almost frozen compared to Zoom.
Wish you all the best, have stamina and you'll get there!

Friendly hugs!
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

#2 in y'er pantz?
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,385
Awards
6
CA
Chips
254
it's 1 hand, means nothing.
How you can work on your game in this spot is by working on your reaction to losing this hand. It's going to happen.. sometimes OFTEN. Need to be like a robot (imo).
fwiw, I don't know what your bankroll is but as was mentioned by Aball, you'll want 25 buyins (20) for sure. I personally play better when I'm rolled properly for a buyin level.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,036
Awards
1
Chips
208
How you can work on your game in this spot is by working on your reaction to losing this hand. It's going to happen.. sometimes OFTEN. Need to be like a robot (imo).
Exactly. Some situations in poker are just coolers, and there is no point in getting emotional about them. Yesterday I busted in the very first hand of a SnG, because my KK ran into AA. This sucks, but at least I did then not spend time on the SnG, and I could just click "play the next" and move on. And I honestly dont worry about such a situation, because I know, than when the shoe is on the other foot (I have AA, and they have KK), then they also get all their chips in bad. So in the long run cooler hands dont matter (except for costing us rake).
fwiw, I don't know what your bankroll is but as was mentioned by Aball, you'll want 25 buyins (20) for sure. I personally play better when I'm rolled properly for a buyin level.
Absolutely. My personal recommendation for new cash game players is to start with a deposit of $100. This leave plenty of room for some losing sessions without creating worries about perhaps having to reload the account soon. And if it goes well, they can then try to move to 5NL after 20-50k hands, if they are up.
 
5TR8 FLUSH

5TR8 FLUSH

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
May 26, 2009
Total posts
1,646
Awards
4
US
Chips
147
Unlucky Georgi, you did nothing wrong. Thanks for also sharing the YouTube video. That was a good fold, and I agree with what the commentator said throughout the video.
 
Folding in Poker
Top