$10 NLHE 6-max: Turn straight + flush draw, river action (200bb+ deep)

[Matt Vaughan]

Deco you say it's not even close, but acknowledge having no knowledge of 10nl regs...

One of the biggest differences b/w limits is the proficiency of regs - don't you think there's a BIT of a difference between 10 and 200nl???

 

[Deco]

Ye of course regs will be worse but I think most fish fold this so I can't believe there this bad. Lol this is where hero pots the river and 99 snaps.

We could try posting the hand from villains perspective on a different forum in the micro stakes ha see how many regs agree with a river call?

Guess it isn't ideal though as some 2+2 genius will point out Aa is no good there and everyone else may follow suit.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Ok thanks for the comments guys, some interesting/mixed views which is always good.

FWIW - I actually checked back...and kicked myself when he turned over KK as he for sure is the type to c/c down over pairs on this spot. So, initially my read was right, he had JJ+ and didn't wanna give up, but I also felt that surely he's not going to be "that" bad to b/c the turn when I raise (even if it's a lovely card to raise) with JJ+ and has more likely a middling pair and was gonna go for some cheeky c/r on the river when the board pairs with his nutted FH. Then I got myself in a spot of thinking "ok, its' actually more likely he has a middle pair now and boated up the river"

Either way, I guess the correct line was to bet/fold the river.

noted for next time

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Tbf, just cause he showed KK doesn't MEAN bet/fold was the best river play. But I'm glad we got a result on that one and know overpairs were at least in his range to some degree (take a note, imo).

 

[youregoodmate]

Yeah Im almost dissappointed you gave away the hand haha.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Tbf, just cause he showed KK doesn't MEAN bet/fold was the best river play. But I'm glad we got a result on that one and know overpairs were at least in his range to some degree (take a note, imo).

Well, I think if we go of initial reads of him being a tag I think in hindsight that bet/fold was probably the best sort of play vs him, or at the very least will be for the future. I had him pegged from the off, he likely 3bet JJ+ A,K purely based on his nittiest in general and 3betting range being so small.

It was just when he elected to call our raise on the turn, my range of hands changed a bit for him; to maybe middle pairs because I couldn't really see him calling a raise on such a horrid turn card with any sort of over pairs and then insta though he was trapping so thought checking back the river was better but when I realise he showed down KK, I signed a bit...but I guess I can put him down to being a bad tag. I think it's quite good for future though at a table, it's quite a significant note.

 

[nidal55]

bet hard the river the fish will herocall the "bluff".he called the turn cause he has a "read" on you.

 

[youregoodmate]

bet hard the river the fish will herocall the "bluff".he called the turn cause he has a "read" on you.

We shouldnt be going mad here on the river. If he has an overpair we need to extract value, villain will probably look us up for a half pot bet.

 

[Yoshimiii]

We shouldnt be going mad here on the river. If he has an overpair we need to extract value, villain will probably look us up for a half pot bet.

I am pretty sure that more than 85% of the time villain will fold to a half pot bet with his overpair because of four to a straight/paired board and flush possibility. I think checking would be a fine play or a bet of $3.5 would be fine to get crying calls.

 

[Yoshimiii]

bet hard the river the fish will herocall the "bluff".he called the turn cause he has a "read" on you.

Villian isn't a fish just cause he plays at 10nl... Betting hard on the river is -ev imo in the long run as he can be trapping with full houses or maybe have the flush somehow and villian is never calling with anything worse. He called the turn probably cause he just couldn't lay down K/K for them pot odds.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I wouldn't ever bet more than 50% here, prob closer to 40% tbh. Villain's will talk themselves into calling because "the odds are so good."

I think if anything this is a good example of a spot where you need to start off giving him a wider preflop range, then narrow as you go. You should never be "adding" hands into a villain's range after the flop. Obviously sometimes we have to revise our concept of what we put into his preflop range, but ideally we want to start bigger and end up smaller.

But ofc it's tough cause we don't know what people 3bet without reads