Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#1 April 14th, 2020, 9:30 PM

Should You C-Bet is a question we all ask ourselves in every game or session we play.

If you have not yet read Day 8 and watched the video for Day 8 - take a few minutes now to do that and then come back here to discuss it:

Should You C-Bet

Collin refers to c-betting as the easiest way to win a pot.But there are times we need to refrain and he walks us through these situations.

Answer the questions at the end of the course and take the quiz. Let's discuss c-betting in this thread and Collin and Katie will be joining us to answer your questions.

Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#2 April 24th, 2020, 7:25 PM

C bets usually indicate a decent player. Via Shark Scope and prior notes I try to understand what I'm up against before I start making plays. Online for example, if the other person takes more time to make a move is it because they are multi-tabling or considering a tough decision (or both)? My other information should also indicate if this person is known for C-betting which could make my C bets expensive. I agreed with both example assessments with the exception of the last hand with A3s (suited) where I would have paid to see what this person was holding, especially if I didn't have notes and could withstand losing the hand.

I play the 2/5 cent 888 "Hand of the Day" where if I have the hand of the day I usually jam it if it's a good hand or CB hard if it's an 89 or 27. Similarly for Poker Stars "Golden Aces" challenge where I would CB reasonably (but at minimal stakes) until it was hopeless or I won the hand. I found that I obtained more value from 888 than Poker Stars regarding these "added value" cash games.

#3 April 27th, 2020, 4:29 PM

Hand 1) A3s I would check on account of having too many opponents, and no hand worse than mine would call.
Hand 2) 89o I would make a C-bet and see the hand unfold due to whether HU the villain's range is very wide

#4 April 28th, 2020, 8:06 PM

Nice work I Live Poker!

Poly, yes c-betting is used more by aggressive and decent players, although a lot of weaker opponents are doing it too. Interestingly some of the more old-school regs c-bet with too high a frequency these days. You can no longer get away with blindly c-betting every flop in the modern games. (Even though that's a fun approach Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

)

#5 April 28th, 2020, 11:26 PM

Going through both quiz questions, yes I answered them correctly. In my live play there would be a bad decision to Bet with multiple players especially the way hand ranges have got a lot wider. Heads UP , you will probably take down the potl

#6 April 29th, 2020, 7:06 AM

Not allowed to use C-Bet because I still don't know how to measure they don't play in progress. Even if I am not able to be aggressive, pay my c-bets that you do not want to be called or fold when you do not want to fold.

It is a more important concept that is not yet dominoes, especially in the small buy-in game, where beta is not important because players have very little to lose and do not even practice the technique used.

So many times, then, we are risking a lot of chips in a number of ways that the regular player didn't even want to be playing only premium cards can't wait in turbo or low stack tournaments.

Good Luck and Lets movie foward Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#7 April 30th, 2020, 2:27 PM

Another very comprehensive video lesson. Great work, guys!
I followed the same process of thought in both questions and even agreed with the river bet. Checking gives the button infinite bluff value, whereas a bet there would scare even a better Ace. To be honest though I find the A3s from UTG/HJ (as it is 6-max) pre-flop raise, rather loose. This might be one of the very few spots I would limp/call.

#8 April 30th, 2020, 9:27 PM

Thanks guys!

PsychoVas, it's normally profitable play suited aces from at least the hijack or later, but you're right that sometimes that's not the case. Raising these hands from early position is also too loose most of the time, that's definitely something a lot of players have the potential to get wrong when loosening up.

#9 April 30th, 2020, 9:32 PM

I tried to avoid the tables at which players playing not only at the same table. If a player allows himself to play at many tables, then this is a good player and I should not meet him at the table.

#10 May 2nd, 2020, 1:06 AM

This course has helped me immensely. Things I never considered

Paying attention to the texture of the flop the coordination.

If I missed the flop I ck fold. Now I consider straight draws and C bet also consider how many players in pot are they loose or aggressive. Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Thankyou

#11 May 2nd, 2020, 12:12 PM

Finished Day #8.

I didn't know that Dan Harrington invented the term "continuation bet".

My answers to the quiz:

i)This KJ8 two-tone flop is quite coordinated with the two-flush draw here, the straight draw which could be a Q10 or 109 solid open-ended draw. Our A3s hand vs three opponents is weak as [email protected] here. No cbet.

ii)The second hand is on a 10-high dry flop. We don't have showdown value here. We will fire a cbet if we think that opponent will probably fold some hands like weak non-made Qx, Jx hands, some randoms two-gap connectors like 97s 75s, etc. It's a 50-50 situation. Both options can made sense. I think I would fire a 50-60% cbet here. I don't want a small-size cbet here, because I only want to finish the hand right now. But check is not wrong imo.

Tomorrow with Day #9.

#12 May 2nd, 2020, 4:31 PM

Thanks guys, and very glad to hear that it helped like that Bobby!

#13 May 4th, 2020, 11:51 PM

Still getting a lot of good stuff, and got both answers correct - but, for me it's another revision topic. Loving it so far.

Can't wait for tomorrow though, when I tackle Day 10; I have a feeling this will be more challenging - wow.

#14 May 8th, 2020, 10:49 PM

Hi fellow CCers,

C-Betting is an area that I am trying to get the hang of and glad that it is addressed in the book in a way that makes sense. The other side is application and I hope my understanding is reflected. Either way, the feedback from discussion will be great and is welcomed.

I am really glad when my c-bet works and sometimes have to give up when checked raised or villain takes the initiative away from me on later streets. However, C-betting still remains an interesting area to navigate as no poker player wants to keep donating money to villains.

Response to video question:

Hand 1:

I would not C-bet since there are so many opponents in the hand. The chance of one of them connecting or having a strong draw is huge. Anyone with two spades, 9T, AQ, AT, Kx, Jx and the like has reason to stay in the hand. To apply one of the things mentioned earlier, "I have zero fold equity" in this spot.

Hand 2:

I would C-bet this hand since it is somewhat dry rainbow type and very likely that villain will give up on the hand if he did not connect. My hand can fall into a semi-bluff category, with the inside straight draw and can improve. Although I do not intend on firing a bet on each street, I will take one stab at a C-bet and check it down there after, probably calling min bets from villain if he takes the initiative.

Nice tough everyday spots in the example. Fingers crossed now and let us hear what the video and masses have to say.

By the way, so far I have made two final tables 6th and 8th, won one 990 .01 S&G and made it in the money a few times. My deep finishes have definitely improved. Unfortunately, my successes in the CC freeroll has not improved much but I intend to change that. In my defense, my aggression has met up with some incredible luck for villain. I take that as my downswing and look forward to my rocketing to the top.

Having lots of fun here guys. Kudos to you all!

#15 May 8th, 2020, 11:29 PM

Fellow CCers,

I opted to share this hand as it clearly demonstrates learning put into practice:

See it here

After making a pot bet early in a $.10 350 S&G I hit the flop hard and as suggested insta-checked. Villain probably sensing weakness put it all on the line and I insta-called. Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

.

A nice example of when not to c-bet and well rewarded for it.

#16 May 9th, 2020, 5:42 PM

I like doing donk bets, as he mentions.

#17 May 10th, 2020, 4:16 AM

The Cbet is a powefull tool in other to cbet or not you should study at least 12 diferent tipes off flop and how your rangue (in every possition) impact on it and them you make groups off hands polarized(valanced with value and bluff) and make 3(at least i have only 3,u could have more) goups, cbetting small (ussually 1/3), cbetting big (3/4 i dont like to overbet F i like it more on the t,lol) and checking.

#18 May 10th, 2020, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by redboy23

Fellow CCers,

I opted to share this hand as it clearly demonstrates learning put into practice:

https://www.boomplayer.com/33200957_2FFBE2F650

After making a pot bet early in a $.10 350 S&G I hit the flop hard and as suggested insta-checked. Villain probably sensing weakness put it all on the line and I insta-called. Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

.

A nice example of when not to c-bet and well rewarded for it.

Great hand Redboy! I really like the check here since you have the board monopolized and the pot is already so large.

#19 May 10th, 2020, 6:52 PM

for 8-9 hand honestly i would like to check than to c-bet because of the table, spin an go or sit an go, the stack are not too much and the bb raises rapidly, i prefer even to not raising at the pre-flop and wait for another hand .
but 8-9 suited i will raise the pre-flop and c-bet.

thank you for this course.

#20 May 11th, 2020, 4:44 PM

A very interesting topic, although not easy to understand. It makes you think and rethink the approaches to the hand.
Hand 1. Ad3d. Flop 8s Кs Jh. Four in the game. The flop is close to the coordinated one. It makes no sense to bet here.
Hand 2. 9h8c. Flop 2d 6h Tc. In the game two. The flop closer to dry. Here I think that both didn’t make it and I want to check it by passing the initiative by playing a check. I don’t do с-bet because I’m afraid that if he has T then he can re-raise.
In return check, I plan the next line of the draw. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424rckReT

#21 May 12th, 2020, 4:03 PM

This was a good topic (although somewhat tricky in deciding to c-bet or not in real time). I also like how Collin described c-betting as a "stylistic" choice due to personality and play style of the poker player. I do c-bet a fair amount myself, but I like that this lesson gave good examples of when NOT to c-bet too.

I also liked 3:30 of the video. Flop: Ah Ad 2c and Hero holds As Ad

"...looking at this now, [um] this would mean that there's some kind of massive problem if the flop has Ace of diamonds and we have Ace of diamonds." xD

#22 May 13th, 2020, 6:51 PM

Hahaha I forgot about that moment Phoenix Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Glad to hear about the lesson you took from this video though, it is definitely a stylistic choice in a lot of spots!

#23 May 16th, 2020, 5:10 PM

Yes, c-bet was one of the first poker strategies I learned, and it completely changed the way my hands were performing.
It is a very important strategy. Most of the time winning the pot depends on c-bet.
I love c-bet!

.

#24 May 19th, 2020, 2:18 PM

Thanks for another good job!
C-Bet must be present in the arsenal of a good player, the main thing is not to abuse it. There is a golden phrase I don’t remember who said: in poker you can explain any action, the main thing is with what frequency you do this action!

#25 May 19th, 2020, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Syltan

Thanks for another good job!
C-Bet must be present in the arsenal of a good player, the main thing is not to abuse it. There is a golden phrase I don�t remember who said: in poker you can explain any action, the main thing is with what frequency you do this action!

Thanks and that's a great phrase! Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#26 May 20th, 2020, 3:19 PM

Hello!

Should I c-bet?! That's a question I do ask myself very frequently!
This lesson is helping me with my basic landmarks in the c-bet spots! I need some basic landmarks!

Thanks guys again and again!

gl gl gl

#27 May 25th, 2020, 2:14 PM

Another great day�s training in the British sunshine. I love the reference back to Harrington on Holdem..... the first poker book that I ever read. The concept of c-betting took me back to those days of working my way through that book and the questions at the end. Loving the way this training is going.

I especially liked he reminder that you should assess who you are playing against to determine your play, which may change depending on whether playing against a reg or a rec.

Thanks guys.

BB

#28 May 29th, 2020, 10:59 AM

C-Bet is a strong thing. You can do this even when bluffing, and you must place a continuation bet if you get a ready hand or a strong draw.

Continued betting in the later streets, after calls on the flop should be done taking into account the playing style of your opponents.

#29 May 30th, 2020, 11:10 PM

Good topic, is interesting to know that we have more chance to win the pot making C-Bet when we are raiser preflop and cotinuos with the same line on the flop, wheter if the flop isn�t the good one for us, with a hand relatively good, and when the flop isn�t very coordinate.

#30 May 31st, 2020, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by BentleyBoy

Another great day�s training in the British sunshine. I love the reference back to Harrington on Holdem..... the first poker book that I ever read. The concept of c-betting took me back to those days of working my way through that book and the questions at the end. Loving the way this training is going.

I especially liked he reminder that you should assess who you are playing against to determine your play, which may change depending on whether playing against a reg or a rec.

Thanks guys.

BB

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the course and the Harrington reference! Thanks, BentleyBoy Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#31 June 3rd, 2020, 2:10 AM

Very useful knowledge in this lesson thank you. Just two points:

- Against tight villains, is it wise to actually take advantage of a wet coordinated flop and represent strong hands and c-bet as a bluff?

- Two interesting concepts were mentioned by Collin the video but I hope they will be included in a future revision of the book, namely not c-betting showdown value hands and not c-betting monopolized flops against recs.

#32 June 3rd, 2020, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tux97

Very useful knowledge in this lesson thank you. Just two points:

- Against tight villains, is it wise to actually take advantage of a wet coordinated flop and represent strong hands and c-bet as a bluff?

- Two interesting concepts were mentioned by Collin the video but I hope they will be included in a future revision of the book, namely not c-betting showdown value hands and not c-betting monopolized flops against recs.

*** Sometimes it can make sense to c-bet bluff a wet flop, but keep in mind that if a tight player has called your raise, he's already shown strength. So while this is a nice idea, I'd usually pass on bluffing wet flops without a pretty good reason.

*** We talk a bit more about those concepts I believe, but feel free to post if you have more questions on them. I agree they're important topics Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#33 June 3rd, 2020, 4:47 PM

Unfortunately, the concept of C bet does not mean much to players at micro-limits, as do many other poker rules. Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Sometimes I really want to play tactical thinking poker, but I think this desire will not justify playing at inflated rates, and even more so will not justify the possible loss of the entire bankroll.

By the way, for PokerStars players, in play money games with buy-ins above 5 million, there are very interesting and strong players. W
I
bored playing spins using the martingale system on play money, of course, you can quickly win a lot or lose everything Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#34 June 4th, 2020, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by 1nsomn1a

Unfortunately, the concept of C bet does not mean much to players at micro-limits, as do many other poker rules. Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Sometimes I really want to play tactical thinking poker, but I think this desire will not justify playing at inflated rates, and even more so will not justify the possible loss of the entire bankroll.

By the way, for PokerStars players, in play money games with buy-ins above 5 million, there are very interesting and strong players. W
I
bored playing spins using the martingale system on play money, of course, you can quickly win a lot or lose everything Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

I totally understand what you mean, having worked my way up from the micro-limits. It�s true that the action can be more wild there, but in the long run that will actually make fundamental poker strategies like c-betting, even more profitable (because players tend to make more mistakes against you). I promise these are the most important tactics in the micros with an eye to the long run, best of luck! Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#35 June 6th, 2020, 6:12 AM

I've been thinking about the recommendation not to c-bet if the flop is wet. If hero flopped a top pair, isn't it sensible to bet aggressively on the flop, at least, to stop villain from cheaply seeing the turn and completing a possible flush or straight draw? Thanks.

#36 June 6th, 2020, 6:28 AM

I always C bet. Regardless of the board because I play a style that my opponent should put me on any two cards and the board could hit me just as easily as it hit them if they miss the board they will fold unless they have the nuts and still C betting when your opponent has the nuts is a good way to find out your opponent has the nuts because you get re-raised on the flop and fold or smooth called and then you can just put on the brakes on the turn and let the pot go if you don't have a hand. But you will win a higher percentage of hands when you have nothing with a C bet when your opponents fold on the flop.A large percentage of the time your opponent is gonna miss the board just as often as you do. I find C bets work particularly well late in tourneys but I find the bigger the blinds and the later the tourney the higher amount of preflop all ins come into play and dominate the action especially with short stacks.Also I find you cant become to automated with c bets otherwise you will start to get looked up if you do it too many times in a row over a short period of time.

#37 June 7th, 2020, 1:02 AM

Thank you very much for this article, it has helped me a lot, to know when to c-bet.
Not all flops are good for c-betting, or sometimes the contrary, a flop is too good, and you have to check to catch the villain.

#38 June 8th, 2020, 8:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tux97

I've been thinking about the recommendation not to c-bet if the flop is wet. If hero flopped a top pair, isn't it sensible to bet aggressively on the flop, at least, to stop villain from cheaply seeing the turn and completing a possible flush or straight draw? Thanks.

The key to deciding if it is a spot where we should c-bet a wet board with a hand like top pair is if it is likely that we'll get value from worse hands. We want to tread with particular caution in situations where there are a lot of draws in our opponent's range that have extremely good equity (because a lot of times if we c-bet there our opponent would be correct to call whereas we are seeking to have our opponents make mistakes against us). In other words, is our made hand actually one we can reasonably expect to get value from or in reality is it more of a hand that we may win a small pot at showdown with?

Hope this helps, Tux Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Feel free to post any HHs if you come across any of these close c-betting spots and would like feedback.

#39 June 9th, 2020, 12:00 AM

Loved this topic.

There are 3 ways to look at CBet for me

1. U hit nothing and no draws

2. U Hit something (Draws, Top pair, Cards Higher than board)

3. U Got it (Trips, Flushes, Straights +)

1. Usually I try to capitalize when it's dry and I'm facing 2 or less(just like videos)

The TRICKY part is 2.

Should I lead and tell I have someting, and might face a re raise or should I just keep calling and keep the pot small, because I have "showdown value".

The FREAKY part is 3.

If I go the goods say like...TRIPs, and the board comes also a draw? What should I do here? Bet Higher so NO DRAWS would call? Bet light to make the next card expensive?

The thing is, if someone HITS on the river and value bets you, If after the flop u got trips or 2 pair...is insanely difficult to fold.

THIS is the part where I see I'm leaving money on the table....sometimes I bet heavy because I'm afraid someone will hit on the turn or river (and lose potential money) and on other times, I slow play, they ht one the river and I pay just to lose a bunch of chips Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Anyone has this problem too?

#40 June 9th, 2020, 4:34 PM

You should definitely bet when you're strong and the board has a lot of draws. Sometimes your opponent will hit a draw and you'll lose a lot of money. But the important thing is that long-run you're getting your money in good (i.e., when your equity is high).

#41 June 10th, 2020, 12:57 AM

On dry boards we can make a lower c-bet because we don't take many calls, while on flops with many draws we can apply the highest c-bet because we take several calls.

#42 June 10th, 2020, 5:01 PM

Just finished going over this one and very useful topic for me. Has shown me that I am c-betting way too often, particularly in scenarios with a wet board or a monopolised board. Hopefully start leaking a few less chips once I get the hang of implementing this new knowledge into my strategy!

#43 June 10th, 2020, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by dunc1189

Just finished going over this one and very useful topic for me. Has shown me that I am c-betting way too often, particularly in scenarios with a wet board or a monopolised board. Hopefully start leaking a few less chips once I get the hang of implementing this new knowledge into my strategy!

That's great that you've managed to identify a leak and are seeking to plug it. I totally understand as I used to do the same thing Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#44 June 11th, 2020, 4:46 PM

The Cbet is a powefull tool in other to cbet or not you should study at least 12 diferent tipes off flop and how your rangue (in every possition) impact on it and them you make groups off hands polarized(valanced with value and bluff) and make 3(at least i have only 3,u could have more) goups, cbetting small (ussually 1/3), cbetting big (3/4 i dont like to overbet F i like it more on the t,lol) and checking.

#45 June 11th, 2020, 11:14 PM

Hi both, played this hand today where I feel I probably made a couple of mistakes - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CKBpWC

Pretty sure I shouldn't have c-bet the turn and should have just checked down the rest of the hand / folded to a bet. However, was the c-bet on the flop an ok play? Or should I have just checked back due to having some showdown value and also the risk of villain having an ace.

#46 June 12th, 2020, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by dunc1189

Hi both, played this hand today where I feel I probably made a couple of mistakes - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CKBpWC

Pretty sure I shouldn't have c-bet the turn and should have just checked down the rest of the hand / folded to a bet. However, was the c-bet on the flop an ok play? Or should I have just checked back due to having some showdown value and also the risk of villain having an ace.

Personally, I would've made a larger raise pre-flop. Considering that seat 3 is raising a bet from UTG, this tends to indicate more strength than in he was raising an open from later position. In spots like this, I like to make my raise 3x or bigger, so around 1800-2400. I want to raise bigger not only to immediately get more value for our KK but also to increase the likelihood that we're able to play for stacks during this hand.

On the flop, I would decline to make a c-bet in this situation. There aren't a lot of worse hands that will call or really any better hands that will fold. If we win this pot, it is unlikely to be a large pot, so we also aren't looking to increase the size.

If our opponent declined to bet out on the turn after the flop went check-check I would make a small bet for value and to decrease the chances of our opponent firing on the river and possibly bluffing us out with a large bet. Then I would check back the river.

Hope this helps Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#47 June 12th, 2020, 5:41 PM

from my point of view the variance and the probabilities are many, and clearly apostanto when there are several people in hand there will be an advance of possibilities that I would not like to face !! aggressiveness must be measured according to the moment I think

#48 June 12th, 2020, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Katie Dozier

Personally, I would've made a larger raise pre-flop. Considering that seat 3 is raising a bet from UTG, this tends to indicate more strength than in he was raising an open from later position. In spots like this, I like to make my raise 3x or bigger, so around 1800-2400. I want to raise bigger not only to immediately get more value for our KK but also to increase the likelihood that we're able to play for stacks during this hand.

On the flop, I would decline to make a c-bet in this situation. There aren't a lot of worse hands that will call or really any better hands that will fold. If we win this pot, it is unlikely to be a large pot, so we also aren't looking to increase the size.

If our opponent declined to bet out on the turn after the flop went check-check I would make a small bet for value and to decrease the chances of our opponent firing on the river and possibly bluffing us out with a large bet. Then I would check back the river.

Hope this helps Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Thanks for the detailed response, helps a lot!

#49 June 17th, 2020, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by dunc1189

Thanks for the detailed response, helps a lot!

Glad to hear it helped! Just let me know if you have any other questions Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

#50 June 18th, 2020, 11:21 PM

I've never heard hit saying, but I like it:

�If the flop is wet, forget your c-bet!�

Great chapter, and good examples.

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Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

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