Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
70,612
Awards
20
Should You C-Bet is a question we all ask ourselves in every game or session we play.

If you have not yet read Day 8 and watched the video for Day 8 - take a few minutes now to do that and then come back here to discuss it:

Should You C-Bet

Collin refers to c-betting as the easiest way to win a pot.But there are times we need to refrain and he walks us through these situations.

Answer the questions at the end of the course and take the quiz. Let's discuss c-betting in this thread and Collin and Katie will be joining us to answer your questions.

9c8952844292f6bd4e1368ef211f4347.png


9bae48e8b0b6064ee1698bd2e01bd23b.png
 
Last edited:
Polytarp

Polytarp

Legend
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Total posts
1,211
Awards
1
C bets usually indicate a decent player. Via Shark Scope and prior notes I try to understand what I'm up against before I start making plays. Online for example, if the other person takes more time to make a move is it because they are multi-tabling or considering a tough decision (or both)? My other information should also indicate if this person is known for C-betting which could make my C bets expensive. I agreed with both example assessments with the exception of the last hand with A3s (suited) where I would have paid to see what this person was holding, especially if I didn't have notes and could withstand losing the hand.

I play the 2/5 cent 888 "Hand of the Day" where if I have the hand of the day I usually jam it if it's a good hand or CB hard if it's an 89 or 27. Similarly for poker stars "Golden Aces" challenge where I would CB reasonably (but at minimal stakes) until it was hopeless or I won the hand. I found that I obtained more value from 888 than Poker Stars regarding these "added value" cash games.
 
I Live Poker

I Live Poker

Legend
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Total posts
2,391
Awards
3
MX
Hand 1) A3s I would check on account of having too many opponents, and no hand worse than mine would call.
Hand 2) 89o I would make a C-bet and see the hand unfold due to whether HU the villain's range is very wide
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Total posts
1,317
Awards
3
Nice work I Live Poker!

Poly, yes c-betting is used more by aggressive and decent players, although a lot of weaker opponents are doing it too. Interestingly some of the more old-school regs c-bet with too high a frequency these days. You can no longer get away with blindly c-betting every flop in the modern games. (Even though that's a fun approach :D )
 
onecardsteve

onecardsteve

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Total posts
51
Going through both quiz questions, yes I answered them correctly. In my live play there would be a bad decision to Bet with multiple players especially the way hand ranges have got a lot wider. Heads UP , you will probably take down the potl
 
J

jeanpierre1279

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Total posts
95
Awards
1
Day 8 -Should you C-Bet?

Not allowed to use C-Bet because I still don't know how to measure they don't play in progress. Even if I am not able to be aggressive, pay my c-bets that you do not want to be called or fold when you do not want to fold.

It is a more important concept that is not yet dominoes, especially in the small buy-in game, where beta is not important because players have very little to lose and do not even practice the technique used.

So many times, then, we are risking a lot of chips in a number of ways that the regular player didn't even want to be playing only premium cards can't wait in turbo or low stack tournaments.

Good Luck and Lets movie foward :jd4::five:
 
PsychoVas

PsychoVas

What The Duck???
Joined
May 4, 2013
Total posts
1,776
Awards
4
Another very comprehensive video lesson. Great work, guys!
I followed the same process of thought in both questions and even agreed with the river bet. Checking gives the button infinite bluff value, whereas a bet there would scare even a better Ace. To be honest though I find the A3s from UTG/HJ (as it is 6-max) pre-flop raise, rather loose. This might be one of the very few spots I would limp/call.
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Total posts
1,317
Awards
3
Thanks guys!

PsychoVas, it's normally profitable play suited aces from at least the hijack or later, but you're right that sometimes that's not the case. Raising these hands from early position is also too loose most of the time, that's definitely something a lot of players have the potential to get wrong when loosening up.
 
milka1605

milka1605

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Total posts
2,098
Awards
2
I tried to avoid the tables at which players playing not only at the same table. If a player allows himself to play at many tables, then this is a good player and I should not meet him at the table.
 
Bobbybones1950

Bobbybones1950

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Total posts
409
Awards
5
This course has helped me immensely. Things I never considered

Paying attention to the texture of the flop the coordination.

If I missed the flop I ck fold. Now I consider straight draws and C bet also consider how many players in pot are they loose or aggressive. ;););)

Thankyou
 
Luvart

Luvart

Legend
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Total posts
1,283
Awards
15
Finished Day #8.

I didn't know that Dan Harrington invented the term "continuation bet".

My answers to the quiz:

i)This KJ8 two-tone flop is quite coordinated with the two-flush draw here, the straight draw which could be a Q10 or 109 solid open-ended draw. Our A3s hand vs three opponents is weak as f@ck here. No cbet.

ii)The second hand is on a 10-high dry flop. We don't have showdown value here. We will fire a cbet if we think that opponent will probably fold some hands like weak non-made Qx, Jx hands, some randoms two-gap connectors like 97s 75s, etc. It's a 50-50 situation. Both options can made sense. I think I would fire a 50-60% cbet here. I don't want a small-size cbet here, because I only want to finish the hand right now. But check is not wrong imo.

Tomorrow with Day #9.
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Total posts
1,317
Awards
3
Thanks guys, and very glad to hear that it helped like that Bobby!
 
cferdi

cferdi

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Total posts
164
Awards
1
Still getting a lot of good stuff, and got both answers correct - but, for me it's another revision topic. Loving it so far.

Can't wait for tomorrow though, when I tackle Day 10; I have a feeling this will be more challenging - wow.
 
redboy23

redboy23

Visionary
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Total posts
829
Awards
3
Hi fellow CCers,

C-Betting is an area that I am trying to get the hang of and glad that it is addressed in the book in a way that makes sense. The other side is application and I hope my understanding is reflected. Either way, the feedback from discussion will be great and is welcomed.

I am really glad when my c-bet works and sometimes have to give up when checked raised or villain takes the initiative away from me on later streets. However, C-betting still remains an interesting area to navigate as no poker player wants to keep donating money to villains.

Response to video question:

Hand 1:

I would not C-bet since there are so many opponents in the hand. The chance of one of them connecting or having a strong draw is huge. Anyone with two spades, 9T, AQ, AT, Kx, Jx and the like has reason to stay in the hand. To apply one of the things mentioned earlier, "I have zero fold equity" in this spot.

Hand 2:

I would C-bet this hand since it is somewhat dry rainbow type and very likely that villain will give up on the hand if he did not connect. My hand can fall into a semi-bluff category, with the inside straight draw and can improve. Although I do not intend on firing a bet on each street, I will take one stab at a C-bet and check it down there after, probably calling min bets from villain if he takes the initiative.

Nice tough everyday spots in the example. Fingers crossed now and let us hear what the video and masses have to say.

By the way, so far I have made two final tables 6th and 8th, won one 990 .01 S&G and made it in the money a few times. My deep finishes have definitely improved. Unfortunately, my successes in the CC freeroll has not improved much but I intend to change that. In my defense, my aggression has met up with some incredible luck for villain. I take that as my downswing and look forward to my rocketing to the top.

Having lots of fun here guys. Kudos to you all!
 
redboy23

redboy23

Visionary
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Total posts
829
Awards
3
Fellow CCers,

I opted to share this hand as it clearly demonstrates learning put into practice:

See it here

After making a pot bet early in a $.10 350 S&G I hit the flop hard and as suggested insta-checked. Villain probably sensing weakness put it all on the line and I insta-called. :).

A nice example of when not to c-bet and well rewarded for it.
 
A

armadillo999

Rising Star
Joined
May 9, 2020
Total posts
14
I like doing donk bets, as he mentions.
 
freddydr87

freddydr87

League Champion
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Total posts
4,002
Awards
30
The Cbet is a powefull tool in other to cbet or not you should study at least 12 diferent tipes off flop and how your rangue (in every possition) impact on it and them you make groups off hands polarized(valanced with value and bluff) and make 3(at least i have only 3,u could have more) goups, cbetting small (ussually 1/3), cbetting big (3/4 i dont like to overbet F i like it more on the t,lol) and checking.
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Total posts
1,317
Awards
3
Fellow CCers,

I opted to share this hand as it clearly demonstrates learning put into practice:

See it here

After making a pot bet early in a $.10 350 S&G I hit the flop hard and as suggested insta-checked. Villain probably sensing weakness put it all on the line and I insta-called. :).

A nice example of when not to c-bet and well rewarded for it.


Great hand Redboy! I really like the check here since you have the board monopolized and the pot is already so large.
 
K

karmakoumas

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Total posts
67
for 8-9 hand honestly i would like to check than to c-bet because of the table, spin an go or sit an go, the stack are not too much and the bb raises rapidly, i prefer even to not raising at the pre-flop and wait for another hand .
but 8-9 suited i will raise the pre-flop and c-bet.

thank you for this course.
 
R

ronn6583

Rock Star
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Total posts
219
A very interesting topic, although not easy to understand. It makes you think and rethink the approaches to the hand.
Hand 1. Ad3d. Flop 8s Кs Jh. Four in the game. The flop is close to the coordinated one. It makes no sense to bet here.
Hand 2. 9h8c. Flop 2d 6h Tc. In the game two. The flop closer to dry. Here I think that both didn’t make it and I want to check it by passing the initiative by playing a check. I don’t do с-bet because I’m afraid that if he has T then he can re-raise.
In return check, I plan the next line of the draw. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424rckReT
 
Phoenix Wright

Phoenix Wright

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Total posts
2,584
Awards
4
This was a good topic (although somewhat tricky in deciding to c-bet or not in real time). I also like how Collin described c-betting as a "stylistic" choice due to personality and play style of the poker player. I do c-bet a fair amount myself, but I like that this lesson gave good examples of when NOT to c-bet too.

I also liked 3:30 of the video. Flop: Ah Ad 2c and Hero holds As Ad

"...looking at this now, [um] this would mean that there's some kind of massive problem if the flop has Ace of diamonds and we have Ace of diamonds." xD
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Total posts
1,317
Awards
3
Hahaha I forgot about that moment Phoenix :D

Glad to hear about the lesson you took from this video though, it is definitely a stylistic choice in a lot of spots!
 
carmenzu

carmenzu

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Total posts
2,661
Awards
11
Yes, c-bet was one of the first poker strategies I learned, and it completely changed the way my hands were performing.
It is a very important strategy. Most of the time winning the pot depends on c-bet.
I love c-bet!


.
 
Syltan

Syltan

Legend
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Total posts
2,558
Awards
6
Thanks for another good job!
C-Bet must be present in the arsenal of a good player, the main thing is not to abuse it. There is a golden phrase I don’t remember who said: in poker you can explain any action, the main thing is with what frequency you do this action!
 
Katie Dozier

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Total posts
1,332
Awards
2
Thanks for another good job!
C-Bet must be present in the arsenal of a good player, the main thing is not to abuse it. There is a golden phrase I don’t remember who said: in poker you can explain any action, the main thing is with what frequency you do this action!
Thanks and that's a great phrase! :)
 
Top