Playing with skill vs playing the odds

#1 October 22nd, 2019, 12:59 PM

Hello to all,

I've wanted to bring this up for quite some time now. The main thing I've noticed is almost all Hold 'em players mention playing and betting with skill. I think the skill aspect of that is a player only has two cards. It's by far the easiest game to get a read on someone. My game is Omaha 8 and the skill involved is mostly knowing the outs/odds. While possible to determine if someone hit a low, it's by far harder to get a read on exactly all four cards. Mind games don't really exist in Omaha 8. It's beyond harder to outplay an opponent with all of the draws. Playing Hold 'em with skill doesn't matter much, in an amateur setting. If everyone knew the best move at the right time, everybody would be on the same playing field. How is your skill determined? Are you the only one thinking you're skilled? Do you have pro skills? There are many ways to play a hand in Hold 'em. It seems like everyone enjoys betting with skill and ego. Add two more cards and a low pot, and you will see that all the skill in Omaha 8 is in playing the odds.

#2 October 22nd, 2019, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Heresthecooler

How is your skill determined?

More skill - more ptbb/100hands )))
Or rather the opposite ))

#3 October 22nd, 2019, 8:40 PM

if I share your definition, for one game holdem involve several factors alone but is a game of odds and chance.

#4 October 22nd, 2019, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by GARCIA PABLO DANIEL

if I share your definition, for one game holdem involve several factors alone but is a game of odds and chance.

I know odds exist in Hold 'em, but how many times can you win with half the deck?

#5 October 23rd, 2019, 12:20 AM

You know, if you take the subject of poker for money, I don't see the point of other games. Because 2 cards and 5 common is enough to quickly win or lose money. The rest I think more for entertainment and departure from the main criterion, which is money. I think two varieties of poker are enough To not be bored-it's hold'em and Omaha. Yes, plus Fusion and 6+! It's actually great.

At all, present Poker, I believe 5 Carte on the hands of! The hand of a Dead man and when you take yourself in the hand and change the cards, and until you get yourself a better combination. I consider it true Poker!

#6 October 23rd, 2019, 12:23 AM

The skill is not only guessing the cards. Its guessing your opponents mood, guessing his skills, guessing what he thinks you have and guessing what he thinks you are guessing. Ill agree Omaha is by far a more complex game and if you are good at that you can make a lot of money. But there is a lot more to skill than reading his cards and knowing the odds. IMHO

#7 October 23rd, 2019, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Heresthecooler

Hello to all,

I've wanted to bring this up for quite some time now. The main thing I've noticed is almost all Hold 'em players mention playing and betting with skill. I think the skill aspect of that is a player only has two cards. It's by far the easiest game to get a read on someone. My game is Omaha 8 and the skill involved is mostly knowing the outs/odds. While possible to determine if someone hit a low, it's by far harder to get a read on exactly all four cards. Mind games don't really exist in Omaha 8. It's beyond harder to outplay an opponent with all of the draws. Playing Hold 'em with skill doesn't matter much, in an amateur setting. If everyone knew the best move at the right time, everybody would be on the same playing field. How is your skill determined? Are you the only one thinking you're skilled? Do you have pro skills? There are many ways to play a hand in Hold 'em. It seems like everyone enjoys betting with skill and ego. Add two more cards and a low pot, and you will see that all the skill in Omaha 8 is in playing the odds.

Exactly why I prefer holdem. There is much more room for reads and bluffing / trickery. It's got a nice balance of math and creativity.

Add an extra hole card with something like stud and remove the community cards and it suddenly becomes a game of odds too. But with an added element if memorization which is why I also find it more enjoyable than omaha. I havent played stud enough to really appreciate the situations where you can bluff apart from stealing antes on the third street.

Omaha is basically just pure math. The fact that everyones equities have such a tiny gap from each others leaves little room for error and bluffing. Close equities also create crazy swings / variance. So you need a pretty massive bankroll.

I still think the perfect poker game hasn't been made yet. Ideally it would have elements of stud, community cards, and maybe drawing with face up discards; to keep a memorization element, as well as adding another dimension to bluffing. It would have to have as low of a variance as holdem. Maybe we should design one here on cardschat

.

#8 October 23rd, 2019, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Heresthecooler

Hello to all,

I've wanted to bring this up for quite some time now. The main thing I've noticed is almost all Hold 'em players mention playing and betting with skill. I think the skill aspect of that is a player only has two cards. It's by far the easiest game to get a read on someone. My game is Omaha 8 and the skill involved is mostly knowing the outs/odds. While possible to determine if someone hit a low, it's by far harder to get a read on exactly all four cards. Mind games don't really exist in Omaha 8. It's beyond harder to outplay an opponent with all of the draws. Playing Hold 'em with skill doesn't matter much, in an amateur setting. If everyone knew the best move at the right time, everybody would be on the same playing field. How is your skill determined? Are you the only one thinking you're skilled? Do you have pro skills? There are many ways to play a hand in Hold 'em. It seems like everyone enjoys betting with skill and ego. Add two more cards and a low pot, and you will see that all the skill in Omaha 8 is in playing the odds.

I love this post as a fairly new player to O8. I find this game absolutely amazing. It can be very forgiving in spots or very condemning at times. You could think you have the best low at times and call to just split pot and your opponent actually scoops(tilting) or you get 25% or the pot (almost more tilting). I love this game none the less and for such a new player of said game I think I am pretty good and always constantly learning. I have been a omaha player for years now and I am not to bad at it but you add the variant of a low hand it just blows omaha high right out of the water. Best game around and I am very keen on mastering it but I believe this will be extremely hard. Good luck in your future O8 games and possibly see you at the tables.

#9 October 23rd, 2019, 6:45 AM

Originally Posted by Tmoney999

I love this post as a fairly new player to O8. I find this game absolutely amazing. It can be very forgiving in spots or very condemning at times. You could think you have the best low at times and call to just split pot and your opponent actually scoops(tilting) or you get 25% or the pot (almost more tilting). I love this game none the less and for such a new player of said game I think I am pretty good and always constantly learning. I have been a omaha player for years now and I am not to bad at it but you add the variant of a low hand it just blows omaha high right out of the water. Best game around and I am very keen on mastering it but I believe this will be extremely hard. Good luck in your future O8 games and possibly see you at the tables.

I'll give you a few pointers. Watch out for A4. Two pair and the nut low is better than four of a kind and an ok low. Watch out for the nut low when multiple players are in that pot. It's to the point I'll hit the best low and just fold, if two or three raises are in front of me. Heck, I've even had to fold the wheel. Pot odds apply heavily in NLO8. If you've got a wheel draw and theres $1 in the pot and someone bets $4, fold. You're basically locked into half only. If someone is pushing, a straight is nothing. The person will most likely hit a 2-6 anyway. If that doesn't happen, the person is probably leading out with two pair. At that point, you'll get half if the board pairs. Calling $4 for a dollar split is a trap.

#10 October 23rd, 2019, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by Heresthecooler

I'll give you a few pointers. Watch out for A4. Two pair and the nut low is better than four of a kind and an ok low. Watch out for the nut low when multiple players are in that pot. It's to the point I'll hit the best low and just fold, if two or three raises are in front of me. Heck, I've even had to fold the wheel. Pot odds apply heavily in NLO8. If you've got a wheel draw and theres $1 in the pot and someone bets $4, fold. You're basically locked into half only. If someone is pushing, a straight is nothing. The person will most likely hit a 2-6 anyway. If that doesn't happen, the person is probably leading out with two pair. At that point, you'll get half if the board pairs. Calling $4 for a dollar split is a trap.

Thanks for the tips ill see how they work out for me. Appreciate it.

#11 October 23rd, 2019, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tmoney999

Thanks for the tips ill see how they work out for me. Appreciate it.

Keep me posted with how you're doing after using those tips. The Omaha 8 community is low, ironically, but I'd like to try to establish it on here. The game requires a different mindset than Hold 'em, and those minds should connect. Good luck.

#12 October 23rd, 2019, 6:25 PM

The skill and odds are very important and necessary when playing poker ... it is clear that it is not a 100% guarantee that you will win ... however in a game session at the cash tables for three hours or more of continuous play ... you will have satisfactory results if you use correctly both your skills and a good application of your odds in each hand ..!

#13 October 23rd, 2019, 6:27 PM

what you are talking about is interesting about the skill and the provabilities but you have to keep in mind that in different tournaments of any game you will find people that you do not have data and so you can not read how that person plays where you will lose because if that player plays With astusia valuing the strength of his hands he will pay you a bet when he is 95% sure of winning and having no data on how I am rocking you will fall into his trap that is why most players play more with the strength of his hand and not with the posivilities of variance.
For this reason it is advisable for a good player to know how to use both tools that are the advantages and strength of one hand to be able to advance effectively in this beautiful world that is poker

#14 October 23rd, 2019, 7:01 PM

I think that in Texas Holdem Online poker rooms you don't need skill. These days all depends on luck with odds. This is my opinion.

#15 October 24th, 2019, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by Heresthecooler

I know odds exist in Hold 'em, but how many times can you win with half the deck?

in Omaha you got more varientes and possibilities, if you are more comfortable playing so well I think I like holdem no limit !! regards...

#16 October 24th, 2019, 7:31 PM

Seems like everything you mentioned is a skill. Fact there are only two cards that you're holding doesn't make it any easier to know what the villain is holding.

Guess the purpose of the post is to determine that Omaha requires more skill than NLHE? Don't play Omaha so I'll take your word on it.

#17 October 25th, 2019, 6:48 AM

I play Omaha 8, in it the game is much more aggressive and loose than in hold'em. In hold'em not so many players play any 2 maps, in Omaha 8 for what would the table not sat always will 2-3 player which shove any 4 maps. This game is played at low limits, at medium limits the game is more calm, less writing.

#18 November 23rd, 2019, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by ArmiSoo7

I think that in Texas Holdem Online poker rooms you don't need skill. These days all depends on luck with odds. This is my opinion.

The ones with skill are relying on this

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Playing with skill vs playing the odds

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