rifflemao
Pugs Not Drugs
Silver Level
some of us have balls, some of us have brains and some players have both!
That took guts.
That took guts.
skrsh76
Visionary
Silver Level
interesting discussion...How is this situation.. Down to 7 folks in 6-max Super turbo with 6 ITM and 2 of them are short stack (2 or 3 BB). in theHero is 3rd (8 BB) in stack has AJo in in the Button. Big stack is in the BB with 14BB .. Hero Shoves..SB folds... How wide should the BB call?
newbie in training
Legend
Silver Level
Not very wide imo not to take a chance at not cashing and not taking top 2...not to mention the fact he already has the chip lead so there is no need to take a shot
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2
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jimmylytle2
Rock Star
Silver Level
I try not to bet coin flips, your friend's A6 is a coin flip.That being said, I did go in with big junk trying to steal blinds today near the bubble, and one of the blinds called me with their ace rag. I definitely did not expect it, but managed to money the tournament even after losing my bone headed all-in on that steal attempt.
The1AceJack
Enthusiast
Silver Level
but which one do i want: the knoledge or the knoledgw ?
plz give me teh 1 that gets me all teh chips and gud pokerz.
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( sorry, I couldn't resist
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theRaven68
Legend
Bronze Level
aggressive play near the bubble is nowdays common for winning play. i dont like it, maybe i am scarred of the bubble, but i like to play with a lot of patience. if i am very short stacked, then it is different story.
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
BB has to decide whether to call based on is evaluation of what Hero's range is, not on his actual AJ holding. Other considerations can factor into the decision as well; e.g. how steep or flat the prize structure is, whether BB is in a situation that is common or unusual for him, etc.
PrayForSpades
Enthusiast
Silver Level
The big stack push was a standard play and the call with ace rag was pretty standard too IMO. I respect the call, whenever I call here they bust me with garbage, but as said before the correct call is the correct call no matter the risk of bubbling.
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sryImPro
Legend
Silver Level
It could be tricky...First of all you have to know a player who you play against with in bubble situation. If tight player goes all in like that you just have to fold, well you should. But a fear in bubble situation i personaly consider as a weakness which i really like to use with stealing their blinds.
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kmichaels
Rock Star
Silver Level
Honestly i really don´t fear the bubble position and that´s becouse i have a strategy to play it:
-If i am short stack and i have a hand to go all in i would shove with absolute no fear.
-If i have a medium stack i would try to steal some pots but with a lot of caution.
-If i have a huge stack i would be very aggressive because during bubble time players are so tight that they fold everything.
-If i am short stack and i have a hand to go all in i would shove with absolute no fear.
-If i have a medium stack i would try to steal some pots but with a lot of caution.
-If i have a huge stack i would be very aggressive because during bubble time players are so tight that they fold everything.
Refinado Tom
Legend
Silver Level
If it was a good or bad decision of his friend is difficult to say. If we believe in the result the decision was good. If the player that made the push with 59 is a loose player then it can be said to pay with A6 is good. If he's a tight player then pay and lose with A6 in the bubble is frustrating.
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turtelliusshellius
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Personally, I feel that bubble play depends on your stack size. For example, being a middle stack on the bubble as your friend was, I wouldn't have made that call solely because of negative variance. Even though it was a correct call based on a good read, he still only wins 60% there against a random hand. And if he's wrong or dominated he becomes the bubble boy most of the time. According to the Independent Chip Model, a call in that spot creates negative EV long term.
He could have sat and folded around letting one of the short stacks get blinded out or force them to gamble to become a mid stack.
I think there are only two times where playing mid level hands on the bubble is ok: 1. If you are the chip leader and taking advantage of tight bubble play 2. If you are the short stock and must pick a spot to get back in it.
This is just my personal opinion based on watching numerous people make the same move to get sucked out on and eliminated on the bubble when they could have let someone else take the fall to create a profit. I understand scared money doesn't make money, but negative EV is a reality and in the long term those plays will lose him money PERIOD. Scared or not.
He could have sat and folded around letting one of the short stacks get blinded out or force them to gamble to become a mid stack.
I think there are only two times where playing mid level hands on the bubble is ok: 1. If you are the chip leader and taking advantage of tight bubble play 2. If you are the short stock and must pick a spot to get back in it.
This is just my personal opinion based on watching numerous people make the same move to get sucked out on and eliminated on the bubble when they could have let someone else take the fall to create a profit. I understand scared money doesn't make money, but negative EV is a reality and in the long term those plays will lose him money PERIOD. Scared or not.
Jacki Burkhart
long winded rambler...
Silver Level
well said. I completely agree
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
From my experience of grinding in the past with stts, there are times when waiting around is actually gonna get you bubbled. I've seen short-stacks double up and you end up being the shortest stack and bubble out.
Watching him play, I learned lot of metagame from this. He showed the table not to mess with him. Because ever since that hand, and then showing T2o and telling the table that he would've called anyways just because it's Doyle Brunson's hand, made people scared to shove against him since they see him as aggressive calling station who is fearless to gamble. People were folding against his big and even small blinds. Don't you also count metagame into the odds? "If I make this call and win, not only will I have chips but I won't get bullied and also, I have better chance of winning and surviving too." While I was eliminated long time ago, 20th place, I was sitting behind him and watched him play as he was showing me his hole cards.
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
He asks another question btw. Isn't it smarter to stand upto bubble play bullies and knock them out while you accumulate chips from them? Because he believes if you're able to stand upto them and knock them out or cripple them, you benefit so much because you accumulated chips and increase your chance of winning and also, you knocked out or crippled aggressive, good players, which also makes your chance better to win since other players are soft players while people will be scared of you at the same time. Because after that had, except for once, everyone left his blind alone. He believes that since people widen up their range, isn't it a perfect opportunity to take advantage of their loose range and double up or knock them out?
Btw, how does ICM work?
Btw, how does ICM work?
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Jacki Burkhart
long winded rambler...
Silver Level
yes, it is always a extra bonus when you cripple a good or aggressive player, definitely increases your odds of winning much more than just getting the chips alone.
Problem is you have to risk everything to do it...it's still ok though. It definitely pays to be fearless and aggressive on the bubble, there is no doubt.
Just because I know someone is stealing though, doesn't mean I can call with any 2 cards. So I know you're stealing and I look down at T5 off....well...I still fold....
So, in the end if we all agree it's good to be fearless and aggressive, we're really just talking about shoving and calling ranges here. In my opinion, A6 is barely OK there. T2 is not, but I understand why he said it as long as he wasn't actually going to call with T2, there's nothing wrong with making it seem like he was going to call with it....
Problem is you have to risk everything to do it...it's still ok though. It definitely pays to be fearless and aggressive on the bubble, there is no doubt.
Just because I know someone is stealing though, doesn't mean I can call with any 2 cards. So I know you're stealing and I look down at T5 off....well...I still fold....
So, in the end if we all agree it's good to be fearless and aggressive, we're really just talking about shoving and calling ranges here. In my opinion, A6 is barely OK there. T2 is not, but I understand why he said it as long as he wasn't actually going to call with T2, there's nothing wrong with making it seem like he was going to call with it....
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zingbust
Rock Star
Silver Level
A6 call was all right, but also a fold would've been all right. Usually you get into these situations and you don't really know anything about your opponent's shoving range, but if it's a guy you play with all the time, knowing him well probably makes it either an insta-call or an insta-fold.
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cpgd176
Enthusiast
Silver Level
pretty standard call, although here it is nice to know that this guy can shove a lot of garbage hands. Makes the call easier. 6 handed, blinds coming around pretty fast, I definitely like a call here with 10 bbs. Winning the hand gives you a pretty decent shot to finish top 2 and even when behind, you can suckout some of the time.
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cpgd176
Enthusiast
Silver Level
pretty standard call, although here it is nice to know that this guy can shove a lot of garbage hands. Makes the call easier. 6 handed, blinds coming around pretty fast, I definitely like a call here with 10 bbs. Winning the hand gives you a pretty decent shot to finish top 2 and even when behind, you can suckout some of the time.