why cant i cash in a Hyper turbo?

[spectralwave]

1. Get used to playing with few chips Are you uncomfortable playing with a few chips? Even being in the tournament average and seeing that everyone is also short? So, if you want to play turbo and hyper-turbo tournaments, you need to review your concepts of how to work your stack. To play fast tournaments, it is mandatory to learn to work with few blinds. You can't be uncomfortable because our life playing this type of tournament is a short stack. Most of the time you will have between 5 and 15 big blinds. So get used to that reality. 2. Don't wait for good hands What is the concept of these fast tournaments? Since the blinds go up so fast, we're going to play fewer hands, right? And since we are going to play fewer hands, the risk increases a lot, because you can't choose the most favorable opportunity. There is simply no time to wait for the best hand. If you wait too long, the structure eats your stack. The famous blinded out. This is normal in these tournaments. If you can't see the opportunities to steal chips, it becomes very difficult. Often, the spot where you have a small 60/40 favoritism is the best spot you will have time to find. So embrace the risk! That is why these tournaments have such a wide variance. It is important to get used to it. I'll talk about this part later ...
3. Position and stack. Position and stack. Position and stack! If there is no time to wait for a card, how to play? This has to be at the head of your bed: this game is by position and stack. It doesn't matter our hand. If a good hand comes, it is obvious that we will enjoy it. But as there is no time, we have to take more risks. How to reduce this risk of playing more hands? Gathering information about our opponents. It is important to identify all opponents to get a sense of the group of hands they are playing. Thus, it is easier to anticipate what they will do, according to their position and stack at any given time. With training, you will be able to predict the actions you can take before your opponents even act. "If no one opens, I know that guy is going all in with just about anything to steal the blinds." Things like that will be automatic in your head. 4. Steal blinds even with disgusting hands I often say that in turbo tournaments you have to work your stack “at your fingertips”. Because in a tournament like this, when you level up, you can drop from 7/8 bb to 4/5 bb and get super tight. Therefore, each blind stolen is decisive. You need to steal blinds at every opportunity, including holding disgusting hands. But when to steal the blinds with a hideous hand? You will do this whenever your raise does not commit you to a short stack at the table. Example: Let's say I decide to steal with 5-2off and raise 200 in the 50/100 blind. However, there is still a guy with 400 tokens to talk to. If he moves all in, I'm mathematically obliged to call and show everyone at the table that I'm stealing blinds with a disgusting 5-2off. Therefore, you will steal whenever you can just let go of your hand if the opponent goes all in. For me, this is the Holy Grail of the quick tournament: we are not going to raise, commit to the pot and show disgust. This is playing at your fingertips. If you come all in, easy fold. Steal by stacks, without compromising on short. The goal is not to show that you steal rubbish with your hands.

 

[toots babos]

1. Get used to playing with few chips. Are you uncomfortable playing with a few chips? Even being in the tournament average and seeing that everyone is also short?

So, if you want to play turbo and hyper-turbo tournaments, you need to review your concepts of how to work your stack. To play fast tournaments, it is mandatory to learn to work with few blinds.

You can't be uncomfortable because our life playing this type of tournament is a short stack. Most of the time you will have between 5 and 15 big blinds. So get used to that reality.

2. Don't wait for good hands. What is the concept of these fast tournaments? Since the blinds go up so fast, we're going to play fewer hands, right? And since we are going to play fewer hands, the risk increases a lot, because you can't choose the most favorable opportunity.

There is simply no time to wait for the best hand. If you wait too long, the structure eats your stack. The famous blinded out. This is normal in these tournaments. If you can't see the opportunities to steal chips, it becomes very difficult. Often, the spot where you have a small 60/40 favoritism is the best spot you will have time to find. So embrace the risk! That is why these tournaments have such a wide variance. It is important to get used to it. I'll talk about this part later ...

3. Position and stack. Position and stack. Position and stack! If there is no time to wait for a card, how to play? This has to be at the head of your bed: this game is by position and stack. It doesn't matter our hand. If a good hand comes, it is obvious that we will enjoy it. But as there is no time, we have to take more risks.

How to reduce this risk of playing more hands? Gathering information about our opponents. It is important to identify all opponents to get a sense of the group of hands they are playing. Thus, it is easier to anticipate what they will do, according to their position and stack at any given time.

With training, you will be able to predict the actions you can take before your opponents even act. "If no one opens, I know that guy is going all in with just about anything to steal the blinds." Things like that will be automatic in your head.

4. Steal blinds even with disgusting hands I often say that in turbo tournaments you have to work your stack “at your fingertips”. Because in a tournament like this, when you level up, you can drop from 7/8 bb to 4/5 bb and get super tight. Therefore, each blind stolen is decisive. You need to steal blinds at every opportunity, including holding disgusting hands. But when to steal the blinds with a hideous hand? You will do this whenever your raise does not commit you to a short stack at the table.

Example: Let's say I decide to steal with 5-2off and raise 200 in the 50/100 blind. However, there is still a guy with 400 tokens to talk to. If he moves all in, I'm mathematically obliged to call and show everyone at the table that I'm stealing blinds with a disgusting 5-2off. Therefore, you will steal whenever you can just let go of your hand if the opponent goes all in.

For me, this is the Holy Grail of the quick tournament: we are not going to raise, commit to the pot and show disgust. This is playing at your fingertips. If you come all in, easy fold. Steal by stacks, without compromising on short. The goal is not to show that you steal rubbish with your hands.

Nice Post but much easier to read with a bit of white space added.

 

[jordanbillie]

This is very true, hyper turbos require an acceptance of pretty extreme variance. I’ve played a lot of hypers in my day, but that’s only with the acceptance of this fact. It also takes a healthy understanding of what the variance should look like.

Practically thinking, like Collin alluded to earlier, I have found that many hyper turbo mtts have an extremely high ante. I make sure to accurately adjust for it by using the *.66 method (Harrington’s M is also great) but those not adjusting for the ante enough can wind up believing their playing loose when in actuality are playing too tight once the ante is accounted for. Everyone thinks they adjust well to the ante but in my experience few actually do

Katie, great post.

I made this exact observation from my "Hyper Days" and found it benefit my MTT game (specifically late game/final table).


Whenever we have a majority oblivious to the most important dynamic of a tournament, we have a profitable situation.

 

[BIGAUS]

I've started to liken hyper MTTs more as of late purely due to it not taking too long to go through a whole tournament if you're lucky to make it to a FT. Sure it definitely requires a change in mindset and strategy because of the quickly rising blinds, but I've recognized the higher variance as part of the appeal, excitement, and fun of making it through a fast-paced tournament. Definitely not for everyone but to those who enjoy hyper, often times they REALLY like them.

 

[eagleaces]

I understand your reply but....

I have never played such formats ( I think it's just a lottery)! And I can't understand your desire - after all, the main thing in poker is to earn money, and not to go through all its formats?

I wasnt out looking to take down all the formats. I was just wondering if there was a player out there who knew something about the Hyper turbo Game and a strategy to maximize profit. I think its just a gamble too but some at the higher buy ins 50$ up are very promising money wise, Especially when they are GTD money.

 

[eagleaces]

MTT

You don't give much information what format you play. I only play micro full ring hypers, I think, the rest is waste of time, as 8 and 6 max total gambling for me.

On full ring micro hypers, I am doing okay. There are 2 significant fault what I recognized, players don't know what they play so they are either too tight or loose, that's why I like it, +the plenty hobbist there, because it is fast. there are plenty more main faults, leakings, how they play there, even I have some too, but less than the average, that's enough being profitable there.

By the way, I agree with the above comment, if it is not for me because of any reason just leave...

I play them all from micro to mid but i been practicing with the 6$ buy ins. My real question although i wasnt altogether specifc was Hyper turbos that are 50$ and higher. THe GTD MTT which have very high returns and less players. Lot harder to Cash in those due to other players knowing something more maybe they know the push shove way better than I.

 

[kley126]

I think that in the hyper you have to play tighter and look for a good pot with good cards, one doubled or more to stay with good chips while the blinds move, they are very volatile tournaments, many all in, you have to use a lot of patience

 

[blackknives]

For hypers, MTT, especially freerolls or micro, it feels like mostly luck initially as you'll have to quickly gamble and build up your chips otherwise the blinds will come really quickly. No time to play tight

 

[Sergei 9417]

I don't think you can win in hyper-turbo by playing tight. Only aggression and luck. Luck and aggression are the keys to success.

 

[maestro121920]

hard to beat hyper tubo's, if you are winning in turbo then just stick to it

 

[fundiver199]

Practically thinking, like Collin alluded to earlier, I have found that many hyper turbo mtts have an extremely high ante. I make sure to accurately adjust for it by using the *.66 method (Harrington’s M is also great) but those not adjusting for the ante enough can wind up believing their playing loose when in actuality are playing too tight once the ante is accounted for. Everyone thinks they adjust well to the ante but in my experience few actually do

That is a good point. Using pokerstars as an example, when blinds are 100/50 in a regular speed MTT, the ante is 12. But with 100/50 blinds in a hyper, the ante is 20, and this obviously makes a big difference. If you are not pushing wide enough or calling wide enough with such a big ante, you will get blinded away in no time, unless you get lucky and pick up some premium hands.

Returning to my point about game selection, I forgot to mention, what is perhaps the real elefant in the room: Rake. Maybe its fine, that the ROI is lower and variance higher in a format like hyper turbos, if there was no rake. Then we would win less per tournament, but if we can accept to have a slightly higher bankroll to absorb the swings, it would be compensated by higher volume.

However this is not the way, it actually works. poker sites charge rake, and while hyper turbos are sometimes raked less, we still end up paying much more rake per hand, we get dealt. Using PokerStars as an example again, a regular speed 3,3$ is raked 36c. A 3,3$ hyper is only raked 28c, but we realistically get less than half as many hands, before we bust or have won the tournament. So we end up paying much more rake per hand in hyper turbos, and this can easily turn a small winning player into a losing player.

I have not played a lot of hyper turbo MTTs on PokerStars or elsewhere. But I have played enough 45-180 man Sngs to conclude, that my winrate is certainly significantly lower and maybe even negative in the turbos. And then why continue to play these, if it basically just generate a lot of rake for PokerStars.

Not saying this apply to OP or anyone else in this thread. But there is a tendency in part of the poker community to think, you have to play turbo tournaments or Zoom poker to be a good poker player. The idea being, that the more you can grind, the more money you are going to make. But the only sure beneficiary of that behaviour is the poker sites, who literally rake in the profits from all those grinders

 

[jordanbillie]

That is a good point. Using PokerStars as an example, when blinds are 100/50 in a regular speed MTT, the ante is 12. But with 100/50 blinds in a hyper, the ante is 20, and this obviously makes a big difference. If you are not pushing wide enough or calling wide enough with such a big ante, you will get blinded away in no time, unless you get lucky and pick up some premium hands.

Returning to my point about game selection, I forgot to mention, what is perhaps the real elefant in the room: Rake. Maybe its fine, that the ROI is lower and variance higher in a format like hyper turbos, if there was no rake. Then we would win less per tournament, but if we can accept to have a slightly higher bankroll to absorb the swings, it would be compensated by higher volume.

However this is not the way, it actually works. Poker sites charge rake, and while hyper turbos are sometimes raked less, we still end up paying much more rake per hand, we get dealt. Using PokerStars as an example again, a regular speed 3,3$ is raked 36c. A 3,3$ hyper is only raked 28c, but we realistically get less than half as many hands, before we bust or have won the tournament. So we end up paying much more rake per hand in hyper turbos, and this can easily turn a small winning player into a losing player.

I have not played a lot of hyper turbo MTTs on PokerStars or elsewhere. But I have played enough 45-180 man Sngs to conclude, that my winrate is certainly significantly lower and maybe even negative in the turbos. And then why continue to play these, if it basically just generate a lot of rake for PokerStars.

Not saying this apply to OP or anyone else in this thread. But there is a tendency in part of the poker community to think, you have to play turbo tournaments or Zoom poker to be a good poker player. The idea being, that the more you can grind, the more money you are going to make. But the only sure beneficiary of that behaviour is the poker sites, who literally rake in the profits from all those grinders

Your last paragraph (conclusions) is what I've been trying to say for a while. I read a lot on CC about members ready to GRIND or GRIND it OUT. They set an ambitious monetary goal (and often arbitrary), and think the way to get there is by playing as many games as possible. Instead, I focus on game selection and paying attention to the 1-3 MTTs that I am playing. I avoid the grind mentality, allow the results to be whatever they are (let the $$ come to me) and most importantly I have fun PLAYING.

Play instead of Grind.

P.S. I'm doing quite well and having lots of fun.

 

[fundiver199]

Your last paragraph (conclusions) is what I've been trying to say for a while. I read a lot on CC about members ready to GRIND or GRIND it OUT. They set an ambitious monetary goal (and often arbitrary), and think the way to get there is by playing as many games as possible. Instead, I focus on game selection and paying attention to the 1-3 MTTs that I am playing. I avoid the grind mentality, allow the results to be whatever they are (let the $$ come to me) and most importantly I have fun PLAYING.

My point about sacrificing ROI or winrate for volume certainly also apply to excessive multitabling. Each person has their own capacity to mulitable, and it also depends, if we are tired and so on. But if we are not even sure, we beat a particular game format or limit, its always better to play less tables and try to play the best, we can