What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

Degradation is a real thing, mate.
As easier to play as better for most

I think the ranges have changed a bit for what people are willing to jam with and still have a larger stack. Flipping for a stack isn't nearly as uncommon as it used to be.

Any pair has a 51% to win before preflop. S-o if YOU dont know-how to play after flop YOU go all in before.calculator odds fold

I think its only at the low stakes or freerolls that you get those. A lot of guys gets eliminated this way. Even me with AA today.

Originally Posted by schtiuky

Any pair has a 51% to win before preflop. S-o if YOU dont know-how to play after flop YOU go all in before.calculator odds fold

or you get 80-20 dominated by bigger pair

Originally Posted by schtiuky

Any pair has a 51% to win before preflop. S-o if YOU dont know-how to play after flop YOU go all in before.calculator odds fold

I think there's something in this that. In some situations where it's marginal to play either raise or shove, a player with weaker postflop skills may feel more confident just rolling the dice on a low pair. Indeed, many threads on this forum see players expressing problems playing lower pairs, so I can see why this appeals.

It is essential though to understand that in a great deal of situations, you will end up in a situation where you'll force a fold of weaker hands and only get called by better, which of course is exactly what you don't want.

Jamming any pocket pair used to be a tactic used by people that bought in to cash games with 20BB
I don't think many poker rooms even off 20BB buy-ins any more
In tournaments there are a lot of spots where open-shoving any pair is proper play.

The game is becoming more aggressive, and the best way to pressure is probably all-in, which is probably why players with not very strong hands are more often faced.

I was just wondering the same thing. It used to be face cards were an early push, but now it seems any pair is good enough. Should be easy to pick up chips early on, but the bad beats are really painful.. Nothing like losing with aces to pocket fours in the first level!

You didnt get the memo?

Originally Posted by supernuts25

What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

It depends how you feel

Any pair is a shove for those who: 1) don't like to think, or 2) those who put their fate in the poker god's hand. Of course, my last tourney,KK pocket lost to a suck-out straight run-out, nothing more than luck on opponents side, that's the way it goes, life goes on, post suck-out.

Originally Posted by supernuts25

What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

"their whole stack" means nothing without knowing the blinds.

there are going to be situations where, depending on blinds, going all in with a pair is going to be the best option, a bad option, or somewhere in between.

I’m some cases It’s GTO. If a HJ opens with a min raise and you have 8s in the big blind, that’s a standard jam for 20 BBs.

When the stacks are medium sized, to small to give you good implied odds and too large to shove its often best to fold them.

Originally Posted by supernuts25

What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

Sorry I should have been more specific, I mean 50bb plus. It can even be raise and reraised and I see so many people jamming so much with hands your almost always beat.
Even late in tourneys it just seems crazy.
But seems lately to be happening often I folded bigger pairs giving way to much credit I guess

I noticed that too, especially from the small blind.

Most of the players with lower BBs shove their stacks with any pair.

In a high stakes tournament you rarely see anything like that.

Hi.
I think that players who follow these principles of the game will never be able to make a profit in the long run. In essence, these are bingo players.
Good luck.

At least it was a pair I´ve lately seen some all-ins with cards like 10 and 6, not short stacked players, just believing in some high entities still cant process how many times it worked for them

Who wouldn't like flipping coins
But really it depends a lot what you are playing normal, turbo/hyper, deep, ko... and stage of tourny.

From Chapter 11 of my forthcoming book: PAIRS SUCK

Unfortunately, we will play with nothing more than a pair a large percentage of the time, so we had better get good at it. We will win a bunch of hands with a pair and we will lose a bunch of hands with a pair. The trick in a tournament is to not overplay them. That is how you get busted in a tournament. Sets and 2 pair hands are completely transparent to us, so we should not be surprised if we run into one of these hands with a pair. With 2 players, a pair is the best hand no more than ~42% of the time.

There are times when shoving with a pair, either pre-flop or a pair on the flop, is a good play, but do not expect to survive with this as your only play.

Good luck and God bless.

Shove all pairs in a row is stupid weak pairs need to be played through the check count exception only if you have a very short stack, Alyn only AA and KK remaining pairs through the raise this is my personal opinion.

It's simply not true that pairs are instant all-in pre-flop. It's simply not true.

There are cases when shoving deuces are completely legitimate and necessary move. People do that sometimes. But, yeah, people are able to fold even TT, so your statement do not correspond with actual facts.

i guess, when you got only 7 bb or less

If you are short stack it is completely ok to shove even with low pair especially from late position and without much action before you. Shoving with 50BB and something like 66 or 77 though is something that is completely illogical to me but happens more and more frequently nowadays.

i think a lot of the all-in's are made because the buy-in size is small or free.Another thing is the number of players rising which means a lot of new players that play by their own style .

Originally Posted by 007Leon

i guess, when you got only 7 bb or less

This is pretty darn true, barring some unusual circumstances

It's just that recently an influx of new players has come from the casino. These players are used to risking everything and going all-in with any pair. (either yes or no, there are only 2 options). And for this you do not need to study anything with enough minimal knowledge.

I think that the fact that there are many more players makes them expand the possibility and types of bets, so now there are many more people who risk everything with any pair to be recreational, or not mind leaving the tournament.

Playing tilted I'm also causes this, guilty lol

Pair of aces and pair of kings in hand is everything, before the flop, hahahahahahaha that's the way I play it like this, I don't raise 3 blinds or 4 bet everything in first position, so that tragedies or bad bets don't happen. my favorite pocket pair is pocket 7.

If you lose, don't bother, understand that you gave your best ...

Well, you must meet pure fish, friend, because that move is not very successful.

the badest thing is when u fold a 33/44/55 and on flop turn of river comes 3 of a kind and u get folded preflop ...............

Depends on your chip stack, for instance if you are down to below 10 BBs I would definitely shove all-in pre flop with practically any pocket pair, after all you are holding a pair which beats any suited connectors, unless of course they make a straight or flush, and you are in a situation where you need to double up.
The all-in shoves I hate are hands like A/K or A/Q etc, sure you have a top card with a decent kicker but you do have to connect in order to win the hand, even against Pocket Deuces, It all boils down to your own personal choice, and you cannot wait around for Pocket Rocket's to make an appearance.
Everyone has a favorite hand and when in a situation where they need to double up, will push all-in with it, because they believe it is a lucky hand, that always wins for them, but as we all know there are no sure winning hand's, it is all superstition, and they will remember when it hits for them but forget the times it misses.
Once in a Tournament I was dealt K/J off suit on the BB, not my favorite hand but is a good starting hand, the player UTG pushed all-in with J/10 and declared it to the whole table, saying it was his favorite hand, I waited to see what the rest of the table were going to do, and when everyone folded to me I called simply because I only had to miss the 10, I had actually considered folding if someone else had re-raised before me, but when we both missed the Flop, Turn and River, my King high won! and that is why I do not have a favorite hand.

When the fun Stops, STOP!

Originally Posted by supernuts25

What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

This is probably because you play in fast tournaments, where it is within the norm.
Or if it's a knockout tournament

Originally Posted by supernuts25

What happen to folding a pair it seems now almost at any stage of a tourney, people call off or shove there whole stack with any pair.
When did this become a thing ??

Freerolls and low buy-in tourneys is where this happens constantly.

I think it depends more on the skill and experience of the player. Obviously, most players prefer to play bingo, but not poker.

Originally Posted by smallfrie

Freerolls and lo buy-in tourneys is where this happens constantly.

i see it everyday,,,players over-playing their pairs like they have the nuts,and others Not calling these players because their afraid,,,esp in BB's i luv it $$$

For about a year, this became a reality. What caused this behavior of the players, I have not thought about it yet, it is necessary to take into account many factors that have occurred during this period.

Originally Posted by COMIRRR

In a high stakes tournament you rarely see anything like that.

That is good to hear that the solvers haven't changed. Sounds like people wanting to gamble, but I guess that was never something new. Just a lot of new people.

I think this happens lately in tournaments where you can pay your entry unlimited times in the late registration period. I have noticed that what you say is very right, people now go all in with 22, 44, 55 etc and they do not mind losing because they know that the odds of winning with para are high compared to an A4 let's say so. So you see how most of these hands succeed in an all-in. Regards.

Its the norm lately, I assume its all about the 💰 and by ins, and people don't care..lol. I do the same sometimes if I get into a tournament idc about or if it has rebuys matters too. Good luck and don't hesitate on folding or raising, and remember to have fun.

In freerolls it happens all the time

When did every pair become an all in hand




Tell me about it. I'm glad to know that others have noticed this. For a while I thought people were just picking on me. I am amazed how often people move all in or call large raises with mid to small pairs. I personally think it's just asking for trouble but I have seen it so often that it has forced me to spend some time seeking out more recent poker philosophies and schools of thought. I was starting to think that because I don't play small and mid pairs, that maybe I needed to adjust the way I play. Perhaps I was looking to be convinced otherwise but playing small and middle pairs doesn't work out in my favor a vast majority of the time, but I'm not lucky. I see small and middle pair, pre-flop shoves pay off with big pots way too often. I could be wrong though and just overly sensitive to it when it happens because of the trauma experienced with loosing to those type hands in critical moments during a session. It's clearly a "thing" now and quite honestly the risk/reward analysis of the play could lend strong support. It does keep you on your toes though. Just another example of why pokers is hard.

I believe there are more people playing poker every day. The more people, the more recreational players, and many, without much appreciation for their money.

I am micro player currently building my bank roll, currently playing 0,01$/0,02$ cash games and slowly trying tournaments. So I get into 2-3 dollar tournaments through satelites and that's kind of a big buy in for me, by bank roll is just 58$. I can't do anything there, people shove on me a lot, play like they know my cards and once I get premium hand my QQ KK get cracked. Is it even worth posing tournament with small bank roll?

I think online is kind of normal, because most people try their luck, and when they get low pairs, they take the opportunity, which often doesn't work.
Live is already different, you have more reading of opponents and also be more careful.