What exactly makes tournaments have higher variance than cash games?

[Poker_Mike]

I'm just wondering. I do so much better at cash games. I expect to double my buy in every time and it's actually rare that I don't. I have cashed at maybe 3 tournaments out of some ungodly number. I don't get it. It's the same game.

I have gotten much better at playing short stacked. It used to be that I would be the chip leader for a while only to make a string of bad calls and blow it. Now I will be short stacked and get up to the top 10% of players remaining often multiple times in a tournament. One I played yesterday, I found myself short stacked with less than 10 BB three times and got second.

I understand there are antes around the mid stages. But what else causes the variance difference? I mean it is crazy that I can kill cash games and get strait schooled in a tournament. It's different but not THAT different. I would say maybe I should play more hands in a tourney but most of the time it's "Thank God I didn't play that K8o etc etc"

I say maybe play more hands because I see so many players get massively lucky over and over and over and over in tournaments. Like calling big raises with 96o and not hitting anything until the turn or river and winning with two pair while there were overcards and a flush draw on the board.

Seriously, what causes this variance????

The variance is due in part to the fact that you are forced to play in tournaments.

The blinds rise (rapidly in turbos) and you must act just to keep your stack from being short.

On the other hand - you can be extremely patient in cash games. Just paying blinds. Playing position and getting into situations that one is comfortable with. Read a book - have lunch - and wait for aces essentially.

But in tournaments - there is pressure to build your stack due to the ever increasing blinds.

Good luck !

 

[guineasqueak]

At the micros, I try to keep a simple theory for the crazy & super sick variance. Personally, I am talking about the 45-man $0.25 SnG in my case. The increasing blinds and fluctuating stacks combined with lots of pre-flop shoving and wacky 60/40 flips have something to do with it. I'm still making sense of the rest.

 

[TravelerLloyd]

I think it's because of guys like me who call you with 49s preflop raise and then go all in on a bluff and make the flush by the river. I knock out a lot of good players like that whom should have gone on to finish deep in the MTT.

I'm just wondering. I do so much better at cash games. I expect to double my buy in every time and it's actually rare that I don't. I have cashed at maybe 3 tournaments out of some ungodly number. I don't get it. It's the same game.

I have gotten much better at playing short stacked. It used to be that I would be the chip leader for a while only to make a string of bad calls and blow it. Now I will be short stacked and get up to the top 10% of players remaining often multiple times in a tournament. One I played yesterday, I found myself short stacked with less than 10 BB three times and got second.

I understand there are antes around the mid stages. But what else causes the variance difference? I mean it is crazy that I can kill cash games and get strait schooled in a tournament. It's different but not THAT different. I would say maybe I should play more hands in a tourney but most of the time it's "Thank God I didn't play that K8o etc etc"

I say maybe play more hands because I see so many players get massively lucky over and over and over and over in tournaments. Like calling big raises with 96o and not hitting anything until the turn or river and winning with two pair while there were overcards and a flush draw on the board.

Seriously, what causes this variance????

 

[NWPatriot]

I think it's because of guys like me who call you with 49s preflop raise and then go all in on a bluff and make the flush by the river. I knock out a lot of good players like that whom should have gone on to finish deep in the MTT.

So that is YOU???? I hate that.

So besides being very disruptive, can you really do well playing this type of poker?? I have seen this many times, but i have also seen these guys ultimately give their money back, because all it takes is one call of your allin bluff to be destroyed. This does not really seem to be a strategy for success - winning a few hands maybe, but not long term success.

 

[foran]

remember that the variance at the end tends to zero, with bad hands you win two you lose 8 out of 10 hands

 

[Smokewood]

What exactly?
The Rising blinds....

 

[dbchristy]

So that is YOU???? I hate that.

So besides being very disruptive, can you really do well playing this type of poker?? I have seen this many times, but i have also seen these guys ultimately give their money back, because all it takes is one call of your allin bluff to be destroyed. This does not really seem to be a strategy for success - winning a few hands maybe, but not long term success.

LOL

 

[TravelerLloyd]

When you do it, one of three things will happen.

1. The AA holds up and we loose early, this is why rebuys are crazy because you simply rebuy and do it again.

2. You geta lot of chips early, useually if you you are up 3 or 4 times usually 9,000 or 10, 000 and the BB is around a 100 play a little regular you can go deep, you have to start looking for the tight players and bag on them, they told more than they should, but if they call in then get nervous, otherwise scare them off with a dangerous turn card, then never go all in or net the whole pot unless they got something then you have to put them on a hand.

3. You may go deep but you have to change your sty6as the tables change, remember, even us gets a real hand sonetsome and when the table you are sees you calling and raising, you look like a loose maniac thru will call you with slightly less that good hands and that's when you have the monster and blow their world up. Doing that just about gives you a final table spot and you really have to do that at final table. Got in the money twice playing both tables. Now this has only been good on good on freerolls. I made to almost getting a 2nd step Venom ticket, but those guys are even more maniac than me.

I am still perfecting this. But as if now it works. Can't wait to try this technique on the $100 CC Freeroll's Bern great at the ACR $10 Freerolls.

Does not work or I haven't figured out $.5o and $1 buy-in yet.

So that is YOU???? I hate that.

So besides being very disruptive, can you really do well playing this type of poker?? I have seen this many times, but i have also seen these guys ultimately give their money back, because all it takes is one call of your allin bluff to be destroyed. This does not really seem to be a strategy for success - winning a few hands maybe, but not long term success.

 

[GreenJigster]

When you do it, one of three things will happen.

1. The AA holds up and we loose early, this is why rebuys are crazy because you simply rebuy and do it again.

2. You geta lot of chips early, useually if you you are up 3 or 4 times usually 9,000 or 10, 000 and the BB is around a 100 play a little regular you can go deep, you have to start looking for the tight players and bag on them, they told more than they should, but if they call in then get nervous, otherwise scare them off with a dangerous turn card, then never go all in or net the whole pot unless they got something then you have to put them on a hand.

3. You may go deep but you have to change your sty6as the tables change, remember, even us gets a real hand sonetsome and when the table you are sees you calling and raising, you look like a loose maniac thru will call you with slightly less that good hands and that's when you have the monster and blow their world up. Doing that just about gives you a final table spot and you really have to do that at final table. Got in the money twice playing both tables. Now this has only been good on good on freerolls. I made to almost getting a 2nd step Venom ticket, but those guys are even more maniac than me.

I am still perfecting this. But as if now it works. Can't wait to try this technique on the $100 CC Freeroll's Bern great at the ACR $10 Freerolls.

Does not work or I haven't figured out $.5o and $1 buy-in yet.

Ya I had a guy do this horse raddish youre talking about in step 4 for the venom. At least 15 hands in a row on the bubble all in. I ended up calling with a broadway combo and felted his trash hand. And then raised every single one of his bets forcing him to fold until his stack was so short he jammed with trash again and was one of the last people to not make the next step. I hold a grudge on people who play like you lol but power to you if it wins.

 

[fishfood80]

There are a few factors that make tourney play higher variance. For one in a 2-5 cash game the blinds will always be 2-5 so as your stack increases so does the number of your big blinds indefinitely. In a tournament your say 500 bb starting stack is diminished every time the blinds go up so if you double up your not doubling up to a 1000 bb, which leads to a different style of play where you have to continuously accumulate chips forcing you to play a high variance style. Another factor is the high number of entrants in a tournament compared to a one table cash game. If you look at it tournaments and cash games are really totally different games all together.

 

[Cajin007]

That's easy.
Variably increasing blinds and antes.
Chips whose value is based on a number of factors, such as buy-in(s), Payout structure, etc.
And overall time dedication is why the variance between Cash and Tournament play is so vast.

 

[west28]

Tournaments have a significantly higher variance than cash games. Only way to limit variance in tourneys it to play smaller fields, which that can be in your local casino. for me here in Tijuana at Caliente casino they run tournaments on the weekend which is only 3 tables witch is great. If your playing Online MTT its a harder field where you may not find yourself in any final table without seeing any investment in return. Whichever makes you exciting to reach, if is a final table or if your concert to much of the higher variance. Then cash games should be for you to grin down and reduced variance. Cash games would be the way to go. Good Luck.

 

[GreenJigster]

Tournaments have a significantly higher variance than cash games. Only way to limit variance in tourneys it to play smaller fields, which that can be in your local casino. for me here in Tijuana at Caliente casino they run tournaments on the weekend which is only 3 tables witch is great. If your playing Online MTT its a harder field where you may not find yourself in any final table without seeing any investment in return. Whichever makes you exciting to reach, if is a final table or if your concert to much of the higher variance. Then cash games should be for you to grin down and reduced variance. Cash games would be the way to go. Good Luck.

Thanks man. Maybe one of these days I will come out and play in Tijuana. I used to go to Mexicali all the time but never tried to find a casino.

 

[JBGoode]

It's the fluctuations in the amount of BBs your stack is worth. Combine that with the fact you cant just get up and cash out chips based off a specific value means you have to play till you have them all or none at all.

 

[Veritas]

apart from the blind increase, i think the ROI is also a huge factor

let's say you have Aces in cash game 5 times. you win 4x and get 100%. you lose one and have -100%. so Overall you win 3x the buy-in
in a Tournament, you get 5x, win 4x before the Money = 0%. let's say you lose with an average stack vs an above average stack on the bubble = -100%.
also mincashing usally gives you less than 2x Buy-in.
getting 5x Aces before reaching the Money is not Happening too often, but it could

so i think the higher variance Comes from the blind structure, combined with the early stage Chips beeing worthless and the flat payout structure

 

[fundiver199]

Variance in especially large tournaments is higher, because so much of the payout is concentrated in the top. If 10.000 people play a tournament, then maybe half the price pool go to those incredibly lucky 9 people, who reach the final table.

 

[Micro Maven]

tournaments only pay 10-20% of entrants and most of that money is at the top. In a cash game you are making money 55-60% of the time if you're a winning player

 

[japg11]

The increase in the blinds means that we have to play flips (50/50) to be able to advance in the tournaments without losing our stacks on the way.