Thoughts about chopping final table

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miko122

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It seems like every tournament i play in and manage to make the final table and cash no one wants to play it out and just do an even chop once everyone makes the money. For example i played in a tournament last night there was about 35-40 people in it. So they were only paying 4 spots ended up agreeing to pay the bubble alittle less than buy in. But we got down to final 5 with 300,000 chips in play i had about 120,000 and they wanted to do an even chop (prize pool of about 1800). I hated to be that guy but i wanted to chance it and go on. Payouts listed were approx 150, 250, 450, 850 plus we took 25 off top 3 to pay the bubble. What ended up happening was we lost two players and ended up chopping 3 ways for 515 a piece which then seemed logical because actually had to come first to win more. I just want to see what your thoughts and opinions on chopping are.
 
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FrostyJack

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The only reasons I would chop are:
1) I'm tired and need sleep
2) I've got reason to believe I am the fish at the table
If the above don't apply, then play on!
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

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think the only reason you should take a deal is if the deal is too good to refuse, ie better than icm(sml stacks will get more than the chip %/big stacks will get less than chip%)
 
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MSINIWRAD

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I remember back in the day stealthmunk was 3 handed in the Sunday million and had a monster chip lead...he gave the other 2 guys(who each only had like 6bb vs his monster stack) a little more than third place money and they played for a bit...in the end he ended up making more than what the original 1st place paid...pretty awesome
 
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miko122

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Yea this one old guy kept trying to lecture me why it was good to chop early on because he said 90% of time the big stack doesnt want to chop and he ends up losing his advantage. Another thing to think about at that time of the tournament it was nearing 2500/ 5000 blinds so it was shove point so it was easy to lose lead after a couple flips
 
Poker Orifice

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If effective stacks are short & you don't want to 'gamble', an ICM chop is worth consideration. (I.C.M. - Independent Chip Model)
 
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inflnlte

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I like doing an ICM chop and sometimes an even chop. Usually an even chop when there are maybe 2-4 players left, dont like doing it with more than that unless im super short.
 
naruto_miu

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I think this must've been a live game correct? I mean I recall a-couple years back, I went and played in a small buy-in live event, had about similar players in it...Long story short, it payed 7 players, and I went in final table as short stack, anyways, everyone at the FT wanted to chop 7 ways (I was against it, even though I was the shortest stack there)...

Now the reasons I refused the chop was because it wasn't in my best interest at all (Yes I would've gotten my buy-in back+a-little more money), but it wasn't worth it at all...I ended up taking a 3 way chop for 2nd place money just because of me being stubborn and refusing to chop even when we got down to 4 players..Had I been in 2nd place like yourself than I'd have taken other factors into account..Like others have stated, did the money matter? I understand money matters, but really there's money, and than there's "MONEY" (If that makes sense to you)...Were you better then the other players left? Were you the fish or do you think you could've out played them?
 
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miko122

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Ya I managed to cash another live tournament last night 70 people 7 paid. Had about 165,000 while other two had about 50k and about 80k and they wanted to chop and i said no also i was picking up some hands. But it was kindof funny because i shoved a7 in small blind against big blind he had kk (a63ak board very sick hand) but then after i just said do you want to do an even chop. Guys like hold on i want to see how much of a lead i have and i told him i still had more than him and we just ended up chopping.
 
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kaptec

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Chopping lowers variance in the short term but also lowers ROI. If you are playing for a living, you should not chop in general, however due to the format of this tournament, I think chopping has its merits, as long as it is done right. Remember when negoitiating a chop, always refuse the first deal, and see what happens. Remember that as a knowledgable player, your profit and edge go down when you have a deal in place, as the scared money won't be as scared. So unless your deal has you winning very close to 2nd place money or more, your better off playing against scared money.
 
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miko122

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Ya i agree I dont generally like to chop early. Most guys i play with just want to chop once itm but majority of the time i like my chances to play it through. But when down to three and not big payout swings it way better financially to chop just because everyone is getting better than 2nd place money
 
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detourglr

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I never chop.. One thing you have to think about is how will you get practice on final table play if you are always chopping.
 
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mkmadizm

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I was in the situation to chop, and i was the one that said no because i had the most chips, wouldn't you know i was eliminated 10 minutes later and got the least amount of money,lol. I guess sometimes its best not to be greedy.
 
Shempstir

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I never ask for a chop. When I am asked to chop, most of the time I will say lets play 5-10 more hands and then chop.
 
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WillinNewHaven

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When the blinds are so high that no one has a large enough multiple of the Big Blind to have any latitude about how to play, I think it's time to chop. If the stacks are still deep enough for interesting poker, I don't want to chop unless I am offered a _much_ better deal than I think I deserve.
And I think I deserve a very good deal indeed.
The best deal I ever got was when the guy with the massive chip lead got a phone call and we could hear a woman _screaming_ at him and we knew that he had to go home or get shot dead.
We drove a very hard bargain and got an almost even four-way chop.
 
PurgatoryD

PurgatoryD

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If after playing for a while I conclude that my opponents are of about the same skill level (or better) than I am and we all have similar stack sizes, then I'll happily chop every time. If you're all at the same skill level with the same stack sizes, then you're effectively rolling the dice at that point anyhow. So I prefer to remove the variance when I can.

What I hate is when there's one small stack that people want to include in the chop. Get rid of the small stack and then chop! :)
 
Mr Sandbag

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Depends on the tournament. If you are playing a faster tournament, chances are the blinds are high for the amount of chips on the table and only one person (if that) is deep stacked, in which case chopping is the better move because, more often than not, luck will determine the winner. If the tournament is slower and the final table players are mostly deep stacked, you may want to assess the stacks, blinds, payouts, and skill levels of each player before deciding to chop.
 
Loonbat

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It's all situational ... depends on stack sizes, amount of playability left, skills of remaining opponents, etc

Also, it's not always about the money. If it is your regular casino and you'll see these people often, chopping may work in your favor as what you give up in equity you might regain in goodwill.

Personally, I believe in chops if I feel I'm getting a good deal. One such chop was 3-handed (I think it was a Stars $55) and I was able to secure 90% of 1st place monies with the chop. Even though I had a sizeable chip lead, variance has never been my friend. I was thrilled to lock up 9K and play for TLB points.
 
zEric7x

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I never been in a instance to even consider this. I guess if I had a really small amount of chips I would agree to do it. If I was larger stacked or the chip leader I would have to think about it.
 
Katyushka4

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It seems like every tournament i play in and manage to make the final table and cash no one wants to play it out and just do an even chop once everyone makes the money. For example i played in a tournament last night there was about 35-40 people in it. So they were only paying 4 spots ended up agreeing to pay the bubble alittle less than buy in. But we got down to final 5 with 300,000 chips in play i had about 120,000 and they wanted to do an even chop (prize pool of about 1800). I hated to be that guy but i wanted to chance it and go on. Payouts listed were approx 150, 250, 450, 850 plus we took 25 off top 3 to pay the bubble. What ended up happening was we lost two players and ended up chopping 3 ways for 515 a piece which then seemed logical because actually had to come first to win more. I just want to see what your thoughts and opinions on chopping are.
Very often the enemy is trying to put pressure on you and make a contract, and you will feel uncomfortable if he refuses. Never allow yourself to do so. If the deal makes sense, then agree. If it makes no sense, then it is necessary to do so, as is necessary for you, not them. You are the same throughout the whole tournament opponents tried to get the money, why should now help the opponents?
 
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baudib1

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There are honestly few times when, on the final table, that I would not take an even chop. Unless there are EXTREMELY short stacks (as in, they will be all in in the blinds if not sooner, within a few hands), or unless you have an amazing chip lead, your edge is rarely more than 1 in 9 or 1 in 8.

-- you will typically underestimate the equity that the short stack has.
-- you will typically overestimate your edge as a "big stack"

If you have a chance to buy out the shortest stack by paying him/her barely more than the smallest payout available, you should jump at it.

Note: If you would become one of the shorter stacks if you double up one of the short stacks, you are not really a big stack.

In HU situations, I typically like to make deals that split the difference between first and second, with a little incentive to play for. Eg. If first is $1,000 and second is $750, give each player $825 and then play for the final $100.
 
olliejjc16

olliejjc16

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When I'm agreeing to a chop the main things I look at are: The difference in prizes for each place, the skill of my opponent, my awareness and ability to play for a longer period of time and how favorable and fair the chop is for me. Don't be afraid to refuse if you feel that you are capable of winning for more than you're chopping!
 
Debi

Debi

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There are honestly few times when, on the final table, that I would not take an even chop. Unless there are EXTREMELY short stacks (as in, they will be all in in the blinds if not sooner, within a few hands), or unless you have an amazing chip lead, your edge is rarely more than 1 in 9 or 1 in 8.

-- you will typically underestimate the equity that the short stack has.
-- you will typically overestimate your edge as a "big stack"

If you have a chance to buy out the shortest stack by paying him/her barely more than the smallest payout available, you should jump at it.

Note: If you would become one of the shorter stacks if you double up one of the short stacks, you are not really a big stack.

In HU situations, I typically like to make deals that split the difference between first and second, with a little incentive to play for. Eg. If first is $1,000 and second is $750, give each player $825 and then play for the final $100.


This is pretty much how I feel. (except for the HU situation - I would never chop and then play it out - one of the reasons I am chopping is because it is very late and I want to get rest for the next tournament).

I have chopped plenty of times and only feel like it was the wrong decision the 1st time I did it. (I had a huge chip lead and there was a very short stack involved - at least I was smart enough to get better than 2nd place money though).

I love it when someone refuses to chop and then they are one of the next few to bust and get less money. :)

I have seen that happen so many times.
 
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Flsnookman

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Chop is ok but I like twerking better.
 
PurgatoryD

PurgatoryD

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I love it when someone refuses to chop and then they are one of the next few to bust and get less money.
smile.gif

Hehe, the devil in me enjoys that as well. :)
 
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