Strategy question

[StormRaven]

Fold preflop. If you were playing a ring game it would be a different story and based upon the table because you can always buy back in, but to risk an iffy hand in a tourney oop is silly, wait for better position.

 

[Poker Orifice]

It depends, lol. It depends on alot of stuff.
Couple things in favour of raise.. your tight image & the fact that a raise UTG would signify strength, allowing you the oppurtunity to rep. an A-flop if hu.
It depends on how deep the stacks are here & at what stage of the tourney you're in as well.

 

[spunka]

As Poker Orifice points out and others it depends on .... a lot of thing ....
among that, also what are you playing for, to get into the money or the 1. prize, if u want into the money then u play safe and fold hands like this, if you want 1. prize you need to get chips anywhere u can, including trying here, hoping noone else has a hand, or the flop will hit you.

But as I posted earlyer it really depends most on your postflop skills.

 

[playerk7]

i would flat call with it depending on your stack and if you can raise then riase it because you end up usually hitting top pair with a low flop or a sneaky two pair that you will get paid off on

 

[bubonicplay]

Fold preflop. If you were playing a ring game it would be a different story and based upon the table because you can always buy back in, but to risk an iffy hand in a tourney oop is silly, wait for better position.

This is absolutely horrendous logic. As long as icm concerns aren't an issue and it's somewhat early in the tourney, your strategy in a cash game and an mtt should be identical assuming stack sizes the same in both. Whether you can or can't buy back in simply has no bearing on the discussion at all. The only thing that matters is we want to make the play that maximizes our ev. In some situations that's a fold, some call, and some raise. Against anyone decent you can take call out of the list of options.

 

[spunka]

This is absolutely horrendous logic. As long as icm concerns aren't an issue and it's somewhat early in the tourney, your strategy in a cash game and an mtt should be identical assuming stack sizes the same in both. Whether you can or can't buy back in simply has no bearing on the discussion at all. The only thing that matters is we want to make the play that maximizes our ev. In some situations that's a fold, some call, and some raise. Against anyone decent you can take call out of the list of options.

It clearly states that we are midway in the tourney, so there is a difference even from your point of view.

Tournaments are a survival game to a point, cash games are not, as you can rebuy, but you can of cause also just find another tournament to play in.

 

[bubonicplay]

It clearly states that we are midway in the tourney, so there is a difference even from your point of view.

Tourneys are generally top-heavy with payouts though so we should actually be more aggressive.

Tournaments are a survival game to a point, cash games are not, as you can rebuy, but you can of cause also just find another tournament to play in.

Whether you can rebuy or not is incredibly incredibly irrelevant. It literally makes no difference on what the correct play is unless it is a game outside your bankroll and not rebuying means you won't be able to reach the long run. I mean you basically said this here when you said you can find another tourney to play but just pointing this out so many people believe it but it's just plain not true. Tournaments are not about survival unless you are discussing DONs. The money's at the top, and you don't get to the top by taking low-variance, risk-avoidance plays. You get there by pushing as many small edges as possible. I did say this could be a fold at some tables but it can't be THAT bad to open at most tables and I think it can be slightly +ev based on opponents.

 

[spunka]

Tourneys are generally top-heavy with payouts though so we should actually be more aggressive.
Whether you can rebuy or not is incredibly incredibly irrelevant.

This is simply not true, that is also why tournaments players use a ICM calculation and not a pure odds calculator.

It literally makes no difference on what the correct play is unless it is a game outside your bankroll and not rebuying means you won't be able to reach the long run. I mean you basically said this here when you said you can find another tourney to play but just pointing this out so many people believe it but it's just plain not true..

I don't fully get this the tourny is not a rebuy, I guess, and again in a R/A tourny the game would but completly different as long as there is rebuy aviable, you would be more risk willing to obtain chips.

Tournaments are not about survival unless you are discussing DONs. The money's at the top, and you don't get to the top by taking low-variance, risk-avoidance plays. You get there by pushing as many small edges as possible. I did say this could be a fold at some tables but it can't be THAT bad to open at most tables and I think it can be slightly +ev based on opponents.

True that tournaments are heavly paid out in the top, but you do not play for the top price in the middel stage of the tourny. Also you do not want to waste chips on bad decisions.

Hence why you need to have good postflop playing skills, to play hands like this oop.

Basically this is, as you point out, depending on opponents, but also on your self which skills do you have and which image do you have at the table.

"each decision in a tournament is based on a number of variables besides how the actual hand is sizing up -- your placement relative to the payout structure, your chip stack relative the blinds, busting a player out, giving a good player chips, etc -- while in a cash game each hand is kind of an independent event. "

May the Force be with you

Spunka

 

[rollnutilt]

There are a lot of possibilities with a hand like that. I would only play it if its cheap to see the flop and auto muck to a raise.

 

[perry]

I want to get some feedback on what others think about a very specific situation in a MTT. This might sound kind of odd but there is one hand in particular I'm not quite sure how to play. It's also at a certain time in the tourney.>>>

I would not play 9 10 UTG - You beg for problems. I would stick to Monster hands in the early position. Plenty of time to bet them late in the hand.

 

[Poker Orifice]

", busting a player out "


Spunka

I can never understand why some folks think that this ^ has any relevance?? Who cares if you 'bust someone out'.... it doesn't improve your odds of winning the tournament.

 

[kayp17]

Depends on who your playing against. You have to know that before you make your decision because it could kill your stack. If you know your opponent only raises with premium pocket pairs, then fold. If not, you can use your judgement on what your position is, how many players are left, so on...

 

[ph_il]

I can never understand why some folks think that this ^ has any relevance?? Who cares if you 'bust someone out'.... it doesn't improve your odds of winning the tournament.

The object of MTTs is to have all the chips at the end. So, if you bust one less player in the MTT + add more to your stack, your chances of winning have slightly increased.

 

[Poker Orifice]

The object of MTTs is to have all the chips at the end. So, if you bust one less player in the MTT + add more to your stack, your chances of winning have slightly increased.

obv in that context but to consider getting your chips in behind, just so as to 'bust someone'???.. makes no sense at all to me (unless you're getting odds to call obv)

 

[spunka]

I can never understand why some folks think that this ^ has any relevance?? Who cares if you 'bust someone out'.... it doesn't improve your odds of winning the tournament.

This is an answer where I use a quote in a cash / ring game vs a Tournament to explain there is a difference between the 2 types of the game.

And as Philty and you agree on this is a part of the Tournament strategy and knocking a player out will change the ICM for the rest of the players remaning in the tournament.

 

[lektrikguy]

If you think you can win with the hand then raise. Most of the time I'd fold just because if you get called and miss the flop entirely you make a continuation bet and get called then you're stuck. Or worse, you get a little piece of it and someone else gets a bigger piece. If you're the first one in the pot don't limp. It sends the message that you want to see a cheap flop and can get reraised. 3 bet it.

 

[Shakes]

It really depends on the situation but most times I would fold in that position because you are first to act. Dont limp if you come in for the reasons above.

 

[Drunkard912]

I like a fold here unless the tale is unusually tight

 

[luckytokenz]

Fold 90% of the time unless your just trying to mix up your play, or your getting too much respect.

 

[playerk7]

fold it most times your not going to hit anything with that hand, and even if you do most often the guy isnt going to pay you off the way you think he will

 

[luckytokenz]

if you are getting too much respect though, you should come in for a raise, you should not be limping here

 

[okeedokalee]

We need to know your position, limping middle or late with limpers before is ok, any action before definite fold.