Stalling, could something be done about it?

zinzir

zinzir

Legend
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Total posts
1,225
Awards
3
A player running down the clock every hand can be annoying to other players, no doubt about that. But in the later stages of a tournament, stalling can be beneficial to a certain extent to a player trying to preserve his stack, for the simple reason that stalling will slow down his particular table in comparison to the others, and he will post less blinds than average.

Asking such player to not stall would be equivalent to asking him to act against his best interest in order not to irritate his adversaries, which is a little nonsensical, because at the end of the day, a poker tournament is a competition, and irritating one's adversaries could be a good strategy in itself.

In my opinion, a way to address stalling would be to simply make the hand by hand play universal, instead of using it only on the bubble. That would remove any incentive for stalling, so people taking more time would be actually thinking about the hand or simply not paying attention. The game overall would not be faster, probably the exact opposite would happen since now all tables would play at the pace of the slowest table.

Please let me know your thoughts about universal hand by hand play. Would you rather play a potentially slower game in exchange for de-weaponizing stalling, or not?
 
Pimp 007 x

Pimp 007 x

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Total posts
418
Playing your time is a RIGHT. And any player may exercise such right if they seem fit. If a player goes over his time bank limit, his hand will be folded (Penalty). I have no issue with players using their time lot when they're close to the money, or close to laddering up. It is a valid strategy.

However, if a player is wasting people time on purpose on a Ring Game for no real reason other than being annoying then.... I simply change tables :)

A universal Hand For Hand system sounds like hell, especially in big tournaments that usualy last over 8 hours of normal gameplay... You could easily triple or quadruple gameplay time by introducing such rule. :(
 
Ice Wolf

Ice Wolf

Legend
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Total posts
1,007
A universal Hand For Hand system sounds like hell, especially in big tournaments that usualy last over 8 hours of normal gameplay... You could easily triple or quadruple gameplay time by introducing such rule. :(
I agree with this. I think you would see a major decrease in traffic in online poker rooms if this was put in. I like playing against players that do this late in tournaments to though because to me it's often a big flag to everyone else at the table that they are now playing super tight. I don't mind this play at all and I even sometimes see it as a positive for myself. Maybe I reach a different level of cash because of their style of play.
 
G

gwj63

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Total posts
455
before hand by hand play I will use my clock up sometimes but as soon as it gets to hand for hand I act fast, then maybe slow down again after the bubble burst, just depends, but hand for hand I act fast, whats it matter using time wont make a difference there, just slows down the whole game
 
DTMath

DTMath

Rock Star
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Total posts
259
I prefer the hand by hand play.
I can admit I made it into the money hands because of stalling.
 
zinzir

zinzir

Legend
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Total posts
1,225
Awards
3
swoopdonk

swoopdonk

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Total posts
173
I usually bet into people who are obviously stalling to the limit.
 
R

rcpeck

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Total posts
55
One of the biggest benefits of online poker is how many hands you can get it, and hand-for-hand play all the time would drastically cut into that.

I hate stalling and think it's bad karma, but people have a right to their time. And I say that adamantly as someone who drinks way too much coffee and has to run to the bathroom often between breaks.
 
iwont20

iwont20

9
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Total posts
2,588
Awards
17
So what is the point? Instead of waiting for a stalling player (which might not even exist at your table in the first place) you will be waiting for sure for a universal hand-for-hand to finish.
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Total posts
3,791
Awards
2
A player running down the clock every hand can be annoying to other players, no doubt about that. But in the later stages of a tournament, stalling can be beneficial to a certain extent to a player trying to preserve his stack, for the simple reason that stalling will slow down his particular table in comparison to the others, and he will post less blinds than average.

Asking such player to not stall would be equivalent to asking him to act against his best interest in order not to irritate his adversaries, which is a little nonsensical, because at the end of the day, a poker tournament is a competition, and irritating one's adversaries could be a good strategy in itself.

In my opinion, a way to address stalling would be to simply make the hand by hand play universal, instead of using it only on the bubble. That would remove any incentive for stalling, so people taking more time would be actually thinking about the hand or simply not paying attention. The game overall would not be faster, probably the exact opposite would happen since now all tables would play at the pace of the slowest table.

Please let me know your thoughts about universal hand by hand play. Would you rather play a potentially slower game in exchange for de-weaponizing stalling, or not?


Hand for hand is painful.

Players are entitled to use their entire time clock if they wish.

Sometimes I am trying to figure out an appropriate bet size and I time out.

I don't think hand for hand would be any faster because players would still have an individual time clock.

If you are really impatient then consider opening a 2nd game to keep your mind occupied.

Good luck !
 
W

wengz2002

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Total posts
420
Awards
1
Everyone is entitled to his own strategy~



If everyone wants to play fast... Simple solution is Game Speed must be HYPER~
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,262
Awards
1
Hand for hand makes a tournament play even slower than, when someone is stalling, so that is definitely not a good solution. Instead poker sites could look to reduce the amount of time, players have to make decisions in a hand, especially the first preflop decision, since that one is usually very simple, and it is also the one, which is mainly used for stalling. This could then be combined with a more generous time bank, so that players have time, when its really needed, but not for every single decision, they make.
 
stylebender72

stylebender72

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Total posts
218
yes its annoying and tilting but you re just gonna have to deal with it.
 
3

300HPGOD

Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Total posts
1,171
Awards
10
I agree stalling is annoying but admit to it often when near the bubble. I don't think there is a way around it or to stop it except that if you see someone stalling (especially near the bubble) you can usually bet them off of anything very easily. Try to take advantage of it and you should be chipping up
 
zinzir

zinzir

Legend
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Total posts
1,225
Awards
3
I agree stalling is annoying but admit to it often when near the bubble. I don't think there is a way around it or to stop it except that if you see someone stalling (especially near the bubble) you can usually bet them off of anything very easily. Try to take advantage of it and you should be chipping up


I don't think trying to steal the blind from a staller is such a good idea.
Stalling is a means to post less blinds in comparison to players sitting at other tables. That does not imply by any means that stallers stopped trying to double up by shoving their decent hands.
In my opinion. your stealing attempt near the bubble has just as much chance to succeed against a staller as against any other player with a similar stack size.
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
3,595
Awards
21
US
I understand why people stall near the bubble and also think it could be fixed a bit. I would rather see a time bank be a bit larges on some site but make the time before the bank gets used say 5 seconds While they may take 2 minutes time down there bank the 1st time, every time after that they would only have 5 seconds. Just a though.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,262
Awards
1
On pokerstars I have moticed, that both turbo tournaments, regular speed SnGs and cash tables tend to play far more hand per hour than regular speed tournaments. And I am pretty sure it has something to do with the amount of time, each player has to react. For me this is kind of an annoyance in regular speed full ring tournaments on Stars. Often they play less than 40 hands during the first hour, and if you are a bit card dead, maybe you hardly even got involved at all!

So for me I would like to see them cut that time allowance especially in the early blind levels. For instance until late registration close. I am just guessing now, but some of the issue could be people doing to much multi tabling. At least this is the only logical reason why, someone might need to repeatedly take 10-15 seconds just to fold, when the action gets to them preflop, and we are nowhere near the bubble.
 
Last edited:
MattRyder

MattRyder

Tech that Works
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
8,015
Awards
14
... In my opinion, a way to address stalling would be to simply make the hand by hand play universal, instead of using it only on the bubble. That would remove any incentive for stalling ...
I agree completely. It's actually a wonder that the poker software developers haven't done it already. Wouldn't want to do that from the very beginning of each game though. May be too difficult to decide at what point in a game to turn that setting on since different people will pick different times to start stalling.
 
H

Halilbear1

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Total posts
25
if a player is wasting people time on purpose on a Ring Game for no real reason other than being annoying then.... I change tables
 
mkdrummey

mkdrummey

Visionary
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
912
Awards
1
It can be used to good effect if you get a vocal idiot at the table and the rest of the players start running the clock down every hand. Usually the idiot will get seriously tilted and you can take their chips easily.

Even with playing down the clock the online game is much faster than live. I've been in both positions near the bubble, either playing the time down to try and cash, or having a big stack and taking the opportunity to steal. I have found that if I raise against a staller in the big blind that they usually win the hand.
 
T

ThisCuteAsianGuy

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Total posts
39
i think this topic is said a lot, and the argument could be said that live games, you'd be waiting a lot longer than your 60-120 second clock that we get online.

If you're that antsy about a 60-120 second clock, I think you should be multi-tabling more, or find something else to do on a second monitor to do.

Its a strategy, and if you were less than 3 bbs and you were the bubble boy/girl and the min-cash was $200, I think you would wait out that clock too.
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Total posts
3,716
Awards
12
Hand to hand play is typically slower than normal play, not sure why you would want to slow down all of poker because of isolated incidents.
 
D

DancingNancie

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Total posts
182
There is nothing more that gets me tilted like a player who is stalling! I am not sure what could be done without completely altering the dynamics of a tourney. I think it is not nearly as bad online as live because of time banks.
 
joeisi

joeisi

Bonafide Donkey
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Total posts
6,821
Awards
14
TT
Your idea is counter productive. It will now ensure that you always play on a slow table instead of only having a percentage if being on one slow table.

Some people play at a different pace. Not everyone can make their decision lightning fast. Everyone is entitled to use all the time they are allotted to them.

In online poker the tanking is not too bad because of time banks. But live it horrible. Some live tournaments have introduced shot clock which I think is a great idea.

A player running down the clock every hand can be annoying to other players, no doubt about that. But in the later stages of a tournament, stalling can be beneficial to a certain extent to a player trying to preserve his stack, for the simple reason that stalling will slow down his particular table in comparison to the others, and he will post less blinds than average.
Asking such player to not stall would be equivalent to asking him to act against his best interest in order not to irritate his adversaries, which is a little nonsensical, because at the end of the day, a poker tournament is a competition, and irritating one's adversaries could be a good strategy in itself.

In my opinion, a way to address stalling would be to simply make the hand by hand play universal, instead of using it only on the bubble. That would remove any incentive for stalling, so people taking more time would be actually thinking about the hand or simply not paying attention. The game overall would not be faster, probably the exact opposite would happen since now all tables would play at the pace of the slowest table.

Please let me know your thoughts about universal hand by hand play. Would you rather play a potentially slower game in exchange for de-weaponizing stalling, or not?
 
RagNar87

RagNar87

Visionary
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Total posts
851
Awards
1
when im near the money and my stack is medium to low i ussualy stall , is my time i do whatever i want with it . I have nothing against it
 
Top