Why? Read what you said and tell me how it makes any sense. Sorry if I hurt your feelings or was too blunt for you.
Maybe it is the perfect position,
but with the caller...
The caller, just called. He's calling in that spot with a wide range of hands, He has shown no aggression what so ever. The stack we should be concerned about is the first raiser. The OP didn't give us a lot of info to go on, so we had to assume a lot. So you have to assume that in the hand with the opening raiser showing up with 67 suited in MP he is probably pretty loose. Going of that when we decide to squeeze all we have to really worry about it the opening raiser. We just have to hope he isn't at the top of his range and if he is, like I said before we are only a two to one dog in most cases.
...i'd be easily swayed towards thinking he was calling me with that size stack, he would have a wide choice of hands he could put me on and in my mind in that position he would call.
Pretty vague second part of your post. When I first read that I thought you meant the caller would call the shove. But now I think you mean the opening raiser would call. Either way we can't play poker scared. We have just about 10bb left, we need to make a move. In the blinds is a good place to make a move because villains are often raising into you with weaker hands trying to steal the blinds. By shoving, you are forcing them to have a good hand to call you with. So you can win two ways. You shove, everyone folds and you add 58% more chips to your stack or one or both calls and you win the race. I hope you understand in this situation we don't have the chips to really sit and wait around.
I joined up to CC believing it was a friendly forum, TPC, that was just not friendly, im really sorry if your opinion is different to mine but you made it that way not me!
CC is a friendly forum. Sorry if me being so blunt offended you. But you do need to learn not to take things so personal.
Yes, PC69, TPC did and has given us the facts, numbers and %. What does that mean? absolutely nothing if your phil ivey! He does not ever use odds or mathematics or even logic in his game (ask him if you dont believe me!) in fact half the pro's dont, they go on skill, reads and gut alone.
This couldn't be farther from the truth. Heck, isn't there a commercial for full tilt that proves that wrong?
YouTube- The best Phil Ivey Full Tilt Poker commercial
That "skill" you are talking about is knowing the odds and the math and using that to your advantage. It's also knowing your opponent and the situation and knowing if you can get him to fold or if your opponent is trying to make you fold. You can't play every hand with guns blazing trying to make everyone fold or you will be broke in a hurry. But to say that Phil Ivey doesn't use any logic or math is just ridiculous.
Admittedly some pro's only bet/fold due to the odds e.g Phil Gordon. What im trying to say is that people put their Qs on CC for answers, not 1 answer from 1 person which they can find out anyway (facts you see- everyone can find them), the whole point of a forum is for everybodys opinions to be shared. If you don't like my opinion ok thats fair, dont use it!
As PC69 said, (and if you know this forum at all, PC and I don't get along that often), show us why the other side is better. Ok, you think the guy is going to call, that is great. But why is he going to call? Do you think he is going to call because the pot will be 3075 and it's going to cost him 1500 which is almost all of his stack, giving him 2 to 1. Not to mention if he does call He's now giving the original caller 3 to 1 to call, basically pricing him into call. Which means the originally raiser can only call us with a hand at the top of his range and hope the other guy behind us doesn't call when he is being offered 3 to 1. We don't ever know what the callers stack size is in this hand, that would factor into our decision as well. More times that not when you squeeze, if the opening raiser doesn't call, the guy that just called the opening raise isn't going to call either.
We can also go deeper into this if the opening raiser was loose like we assume and the caller did have a hand, why wouldn't he isolate the lose player with a three bet, and play him HU? He would be in position against a loose player with a premium hand, which is exactly what you want. So again, we don't know what the callers stack size was, but he could be calling with suited connectors or a small PP and hoping others just call behind, in hopes to hit a monster flop. The caller never shows any aggression. But again, we would want to know more about this player. Is he tight or loose himself? Has he three bet before or does he not three bet? ect.
Admittedly, this is a tough problem due to the fact the OP didn't give us much information to base decisions off of. So we had to assume a lot. But I told you what my assumptions were and I gave concrete reasoning to why I would do what I would do. Which is all that PC69 was pointing out.
