Regarding a hand that absolutely has me in shock!

[ssbn743]

I realize it was kind of a transparent squeeze that I probably should have just stayed away from. I’m not sure what I was doing even playing that hand from early position, but for some reason, I did. If I had got called by the UTG player with whatever he was holding I would just have to chalk it up to experience. The thing that has my head all tied up is how the button made that play. First smooth calling a re-raise all-in and then calling off 100% of his stack into what could potentially be a 4 way pot – yeah he had the best hand but couldn’t have possibly known that, and that’s is why I think it was bad play, most likely I would have lost the hand anyway, in hind site of course.

 

[blankoblanco]

yeah he had the best hand but couldn’t have possibly known that

why not? you instantly read every single person's hands based on simple preflop actions, he probably just has soul reading skills like you do. when 2 wizards do battle, things get wizardy

 

[ben_rhyno]

why not? you instantly read every single person's hands based on simple preflop actions, he probably just has soul reading skills like you do. when 2 wizards do battle, things get wizardy

+8
also fold pre.
also just because you guessed AK doesn't mean you knew he had AK.

In after live version of potripper

 

[BlueNowhere]

Lol what a brilliant read this thread is. Wish I could just put someone on an exact hand and forget all about trying to determine their range.

 

[ssbn743]

I didn’t say I’m clairvoyant and could have easily been wrong. As it turns out, I did pretty well on this hand! I could have been up against AA from the rock that was UTG, so again why was I even playing? Point taken! But after the buttons’ smooth call of the all-in re-raise I was nearly certain of a pocket pair and I was right – I really don’t think that was too hard of a read and most poker players would have came to the same conclusion, what else could he be playing there? It’s either a small pocket or a monster, there is no in between. If I were him I may think the same thing about my hand, accept that I don’t believe I gave away quite as much info, I could have been smooth calling with AQ or 78 suited or something like that vice the nearly certain poker pair he was playing, and of course like he, I could have been slow rolling a monster as well.

My point is kind of irrelevant because I don’t think he was even thinking about my cards and was just going to play his 66 no matter what into an UTG raise, a re-raise all-in, and a re-re-raise all-in; because he was “short stacked” as he put it. Even still I would have almost certainly been called by the UTG player and lost to a pair of kings. Originally I thought he would fold but after re-thinking it I’m not so sure, hell he almost called anyway, and I just should have avoided this whole spot no matter how attractive the pot may have been.

 

[baudib1]

You have almost no big pairs in your range after flatting shortstack UTG+1.

 

[WVHillbilly]

You have almost no big pairs in your range after flatting shortstack UTG+1.

Range? People don't have ranges. They have 1 hand.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Do I see WVHBilly before my eyes in the "tournament" section on CC?

Hmmzz..

Surely not polishing up on your skillz for the cake promotion tournaments are we Billy and getting tips?:}

 

[ssbn743]

Ok, so if you’re on the button and I flat from UTG +1, short stacked as you say (even though 150K was one of the biggest in the tourney) and therefore have no big pairs in my range; you would call all-in with 66?

 

[baudib1]

Regardless of how he got to this point, he should call with any hand that he called the 35K with. He should call with 66, he should call with 65. The fact that you can show up with a smaller pair from time to time makes it a super fist-pump call with 66.

He needs about 30% equity to call and, even giving you some discounted JJ-AA, he easily has 40%. It would be a terrible fold for the price.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.791% 41.87% 00.92% 344148096 7553733.00 { 66 }
Hand 1: 57.209% 56.29% 00.92% 462650358 7553733.00 { AcAd, KcKd, QcQd, JcJd, JcJh, TT-55, ATs+, KQs, AQo-AJo }

 

[ssbn743]

Ok, so the math proves it then! Except for one thing, this is a tournament and you cannot rebuy if you lose – why call, if you’re beat? I don’t care if you’re getting the right price!

Again, we’re talking about a small little mountain town in Colorado called Blackhawk, not Las Vegas and the wsop. There are 6, maybe 7 tables to start, and 40K stacks only if you invest $300. I’d be willing to bet that greater than 50% of the field buys the minimum $100 10K stack. There are maybe 1.2 million chips in play, a 140K, 150K stack is a good stack. As much as I can’t understand the AJ equity, as you like to say, you can’t understand this small mountain town game – you must adjust your strategy.

He had 140K, why play there – you could say the same thing for me and I will take that (I shouldn’t have played) but my plan, as poor as it may have been, was to get to showdown versus a big ace all-in for 130K with a 35K investment. I don’t think he even had a plan! Additionally, he must consider 1 hand for 35K of his stack, but two others that have him covered. I see you’re math supports his call of me, but does it support a 3 or 4 way pot for all his chips?

 

[baudib1]

You should try the lottery or roulette.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Ok, so if you’re on the button and I flat from UTG +1, short stacked as you say (even though 150K was one of the biggest in the tourney) and therefore have no big pairs in my range; you would call all-in with 66?

This made me chuckle!

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Ok, so the math proves it then! Except for one thing, this is a tournament and you cannot rebuy if you lose – why call, if you’re beat? I don’t care if you’re getting the right price!

Another comedy moment

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I’m thinking "not in my casino are you going to smooth call an all-in from the button with two players to act behind you, one of whom raised from UTG and the other who smooth called from UTG +1."

"Not in my casino" who are you, John Wayne?

 

[Stu_Ungar]

He had 140K, why play there – you could say the same thing for me and I will take that (I shouldn’t have played) but my plan, as poor as it may have been, was to get to showdown versus a big ace all-in for 130K with a 35K investment. I don’t think he even had a plan!

He did have a plan and it worked, his plan is outlined in this youtube video

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Inf act thats probably the face he pulled right!

 

[ssbn743]

Buadib1 - I should play the lottery, yet you can’t answer my question? Interesting! I wonder; is God good at poker? I just figured that you would know!

 

[CheckraiseLife]

the probelm with your play is so many factors have to go right for you, firstly ALL of your reads have to be dead on and to say precissley i'm shovin 5's all in at that stage...why cant the super tight guy utg cant have jj+? not a fan, sicne even if your reads right your not a massive favourite anyways
your most likley to be a dog, and theres plenty of other reasons explained in detail from other people on here.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

The problem is that when people like the OP make plays like this they try to put people on exact hands rather than ranges. Obviously ranges include these exact hands but other likely candidates too. Occasionally their "read" is correct, but rather than viewing this as a lucky occurrence, they believe that its possible to put people on such narrow ranges as a result if skill. This then reinforces the delusion that its possible to put people on such narrow ranges.

 

[baudib1]

that's likely the least of his problems. It is highly possible that players in this group are bad enough to have really depolarized and narrow ranges.

the real problems he has are:
-- Not understanding that even knowing UTG's hand, he should still fold
-- Not having a plan
-- lacking table awareness
-- overestimating fold equity
-- lacking basic knowledge of pot odds and preflop equities
-- not understanding the nature of turbo tournaments
-- overvaluing "tournament life"
-- not understanding correct play with 15-25 BBs in later stages of tournaments
-- not taking criticism constructively
-- being results oriented
-- probably other things, like bad BRM