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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
In this situation I'm folding everything. 100%.
In this situation I'm folding everything. 100%.
O
only_bridge
Legend
Silver Level
AA is a call I think, havent done the exact calculations.
You go from over 90% equity to around 30% around 15% of the time.
And to 100% equity 85% of the time.
But if he had us covered it would have been an easy fold.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Well, I haven't done the actual calcs, either, but this seems flawed to me. I don't think you'll retain anywhere close to 30% equity the times you lose. You'll be left with only 150ish chips and even the current SS will have over 5x your stack, then there's the other two stacks who have you absolutely crushed. On top of this, you won't even have enough for your next BB so you're going to be automatically AI v. 3 opponents when you have a ridiculously tiny stack. Also, even if you do somehow triple-up with your random hand, you'll still be the SS. Long story short, I believe that the times you lose, your actual equity drops to near zero.
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only_bridge
Legend
Silver Level
I beg to differ.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Ok,.... is my math off somewhere? It certainly could be as I didn't spend a lot of time on this since it's a routine fold for me. Everytime. Anyway, by my quick calc the times you call and lose the remaining chip stacks look like this:
CL: 4,502
2nd CL: 3,570
Previous SS: 775
You: 153
Doesn't seem to me like that comes-out to anywhere close to 30% equity the times you lose, but then again, I've never claimed any particular math ability.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
T
trigga3
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I dont fold AA here as im 2nd last in chips and should the ss double up im in trouble and will be wishing i had called. Would rather take a chance at ending the game here when i know im deffo strong fav if i had 3000+ chips i consider folding AA. I do however fold KK or QQ in this spot. Thats my opinion anyway from someone who specialises in DYM tourneys.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
This, at least, is a coherent reason for playing, AA. AlthoughI still disagree. It seems like we are in agreement, at least, that everything outside of AA is snap fold. Unless I've got my numbers wrong, notice IF ss doubles-up he's STILL the ss. Also if he doesn't, match is over; you win. Finally, unless he specifically doubles through the chip leader, you actually move-up to 2nd CL as he doubles through the other guy. So, yeah, I'm folding even AA, but as I said I can see some validity to your line. I just prefer mine.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Ooops, sorry. I HATE it that when you post a reply you lose the ability to see the screenshots of the hand in question. For some reason when doing just a "quick reply", though, you can still see the screenshot, so we'll go with that.
Anyway, actually referencing the screenshot, you're ALREADY the second CL. NOW, I'm really folding everything. 100%, including A-A. SS loses, game-over; you win. Other guy loses, he just swaps position with the current SS, he becomes SS and current SS becomes second SS. No lose situation for you by just folding.
Anyway, actually referencing the screenshot, you're ALREADY the second CL. NOW, I'm really folding everything. 100%, including A-A. SS loses, game-over; you win. Other guy loses, he just swaps position with the current SS, he becomes SS and current SS becomes second SS. No lose situation for you by just folding.
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cheaptrix
Rock Star
Silver Level
depending on how tight UTG is shoving here it might actually be +EV to fold aces.
QQ is an obvious fold for anyone that understands DON's but AA is questionable. if villain is only shoving QQ+, AKs then folding everything is the correct play according to wiz.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
My thinking exactly, though I didn't bother to run it through wiz. With an obvious SS who should be looking to call wide second SS, if he knows what he's doing, should be shoving pretty tight. AA debateable, but still a fold for me. I really don't care if shover loses to SS or wins. They just trade places as SS and second SS, or game is over. One result has little/no effect on me; the other and I'm a winner.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Don't get out much, do you PO????
Maybe we should revert to everyone's favorite topic.....when to fold AA pre and it's NOT a DoN or Satelitte.:hmmmm:
Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
Fold w/ the QQ situation (I'll stay away from the AA for now... ) This is a DON...(different dynamics than reg game/survival, not being a hero...) If the other two equally large(r) stacks know how to play (I'm assuming all of you do to make it to this stage) then they would realize the (unspoken) goal is to gang up and eliminate player #1 from the table.
) This is a DON...(different dynamics than reg game/survival, not being a hero...) If the other two equally large(r) stacks know how to play (I'm assuming all of you do to make it to this stage) then they would realize the (unspoken) goal is to gang up and eliminate player #1 from the table.
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cheaptrix
Rock Star
Silver Level
i wouldn't expect someone that doesn't play DON's to understand.
Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
A double +1 on that...
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
huh?
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cheaptrix
Rock Star
Silver Level
i feel i need to add more to this, sry. lol... if UTG is competent at DON's then he has zero reason to shove this hand unless he has QQ+.
and to make things even easier for UTG, he has position on the short stack. UTG's range should be QQ+ here.. so i still say AA would be questionable. we would need to know more about villain, i'm certainly folding QQ.
huh?
lol... that's me!... always reading between the lines.
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Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
...and me, for not paying more attention to what was being responded to... as to my response after it... PO' obv knows about DONs......
lol... that's me!... always reading between the lines.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
You think utg's range is that tight???i feel i need to add more to this, sry. lol... if UTG is competent at DON's then he has zero reason to shove this hand unless he has QQ+.
and to make things even easier for UTG, he has position on the short stack. UTG's range should be QQ+ here.. so i still say AA would be questionable. we would need to know more about villain, i'm certainly folding QQ.
lol... that's me!... always reading between the lines.
I really don't think it matters at all in this spot what UTG's range is as far as OP question goes.
I was thanking for the bump on a Sunday for some good lolzz as there's some pretty funny responses on this thread & Sunday's aren't typically days when I'm working hard at keeping emotions in check (so it was some comic relief).
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cheaptrix
Rock Star
Silver Level
that would be my range.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
I put his range pretty tight, too. Almost exactly what CT calculated.
Anyway, I get what PO means. Some of the early responses were pretty funny. One new member, in particular, was going to publish a players guide to tell us how to play DoNs. Still waiting. Though since he's been banned now, I rather doubt we'll ever see it.
Anyway, I get what PO means. Some of the early responses were pretty funny. One new member, in particular, was going to publish a players guide to tell us how to play DoNs. Still waiting. Though since he's been banned now, I rather doubt we'll ever see it.
