Open Limping in final stages of microlimit MTTs. Would it really be that bad?

[FabioDenisBR]

Hello guys!

I am starting my journey through MTTs and I have been studying books, website and blog posts and all the material I can find on the subject.

It is almost unanimous that opening a LIMP hand is a very weak move and we should avoid it.


Obviously, many do not follow this principle to the letter. I have observed, especially in the final stages of microlimit tournaments, that even players marked as aggressive in the early stages use this trick in the final stages, when their stacks are between 20-30 BBs.


The interesting thing is that I have observed that many are successful with these plays, especially at tables with many passive shortstacks.


Could it be that I'm not getting the message right, or isn't limping into the final stages a bad deal?


Can limping be considered a loose way to play?


Does anyone use this strategy?

What are the risks of adopting this strategy?

 

[fundiver199]

Limping in tournaments is mostly used by good players, when its down to SB vs. BB, and the reason for that is, most tournaments have antes, and for a raise to be effective from SB, it needs to be very large. This is, because BB have position on SB postflop. So rather than putting in a lot of chips and then always get either called or 3-bet, you can choose to limp part of your range or even your entire range from SB seat. I often experiment and adjust to, how the individual opponent play, but the shorter stacks get, the more incentiviced you are to limp. Until the point where you can simply open shove.

Open limping from other seats than SB is not something, I personally use, but some good players will sometimes do it especially from BTN. I think, the main idea behind this is to take away profitable rejamming spots from the opponents in situations with high ICM pressure like on the bubble or final table. In these spots there can be a very big gap between jamming ranges and calling ranges, and by limping you make jamming less attractive for the players behind. The downside however is, that you also allow BB to see a free flop with his entire range, and you allow SB to make a cheap complete.

So for me this is something, which I think, you can do, but its fairly advanced, and you need to know exactly when to do it. And if you play micro or low stakes tournaments, as most of us to, then a lot of your opponents will not be rejamming as wide in those spots, as they actually could. So there is more chance, that you can make a standard min-raise and actually get it through, or just get called by BB.

 

[Adi8877]

Limping in tournaments is mostly used by good players, when its down to SB vs. BB, and the reason for that is, most tournaments have antes, and for a raise to be effective from SB, it needs to be very large. This is, because BB have position on SB postflop. So rather than putting in a lot of chips and then always get either called or 3-bet, you can choose to limp part of your range or even your entire range from SB seat. I often experiment and adjust to, how the individual opponent play, but the shorter stacks get, the more incentiviced you are to limp. Until the point where you can simply open shove.

Open limping from other seats than SB is not something, I personally use, but some good players will sometimes do it especially from BTN. I think, the main idea behind this is to take away profitable rejamming spots from the opponents in situations with high ICM pressure like on the bubble or final table. In these spots there can be a very big gap between jamming ranges and calling ranges, and by limping you make jamming less attractive for the players behind. The downside however is, that you also allow BB to see a free flop with his entire range, and you allow SB to make a cheap complete.

So for me this is something, which I think, you can do, but its fairly advanced, and you need to know exactly when to do it. And if you play micro or low stakes tournaments, as most of us to, then a lot of your opponents will not be rejamming as wide in those spots, as they actually could. So there is more chance, that you can make a standard min-raise and actually get it through, or just get called by BB.

I agree. To be honest, on micro and low level I consider them, especially from early position, as a raise, as there are wild range of players, and I face with a reraise - often allin - with monsters, if I raise after a limp.

Otherwise, I rarely see the limping in the late phase, and it happens mostly from button, SB. Definitely, do not see it in ITM or FT bubble, especially not if there are few short stack at the table. Even when I see, sometimes do from early position, it is a hidden monster and wishing someone will go allin. I think, even on micros, it result minus in long run, on 9max tourneys definitely. I can't decide it on 8max, and I play rarely 6 max, however I see it there more often than on 9max.

 

[karl coakley]

Hello guys!


It is almost unanimous that opening a LIMP hand is a very weak move and we should avoid it.

You have your answer. 2.5 or fold at a minimum. While some may argue that it's okay in a certain situation, it's really not.

You don't have to defend a blind, you don't have to play BB vs SB, you don't have to limp to see if you hit a set, you don't have to limp because everyone else is limping, or any other reason that could be offered.

There are a couple reasons for this:

1. It's a bad habit. Once you start this it becomes easier and easier to justify your limp for a wide range which pretty much wins small pots and loses big one.

2. You start playing a bad selection of cards and end up in hands you shouldn't be in. You are putting yourself in a position to lose to larger straight, flushes, sets, 2 pair, ect.

3. A raise sets up a strong aggressive poker hand. It thins the range I'm playing against, it sets up my cbet and bluffs, it builds value and bigger pots for my hands.

This is a huge hole in a poker game. Limping loses money.

 

[foran]

limping for some reason, for example, in the small blind I call with certain hands so I can see the flop if I get reraised, the same I do with aa when I want to double since I can't wait any longer.

 

[akmost]

Open limping in early / middle position no matter how deep we are is not a favorite move for me.
But I see open limps mostly in the BTN with approximately 20bbs , we see a cheap flop and we are in position. In micro limits though players 3bet jam vs LP super tight or calling super wide(sometimes). You won't see that in bigger buy ins , so this move came in order to fill the gap and play more BTNs. Therefore I don't see any good reason to do it IMHO(in the micros).

OL in early position should always be super balanced - personally I don't know how to balance my ranges so I keep it simple and I always OR.

Lastly if we open limp we give the chance for many players behind to see a chip flop too, our hand will become super vulnerable and we give away so much equity we would have vs 1 opponent.

 

[CallmeFloppy]

As a general rule of play I agree limping is not ideal. You really should be raising or folding.

There are times that I do limp though.

2 favorites

1 - If I have a loose aggressive player behind me that loves to bet unraised pots. I will limp and allow them to raise so I can build a bigger pot with a strong preflop holding.

2 - If I have a table where I have a lot of people that like to limp and see the flop. I will set mine and limp any suited ace. The board, players, pot and my table image will determine how I play post flop.

 

[terryk]

Open-limping screams the player is confident in their post-flop game,,,

 

[tiltedskill2130]

limping no matter what the buyin is very risky and i know most of us have had the time where we hit a small pair and got destroyed. we know we have a weak hand but still defend knowing we are probally behind or can easily be behind after the next card. I prefer to just fold anything that isnt atleast medium strenght even for the half blind

 

[spectralwave]

Very rarely did I limp even more with the wrong move.

 

[Gorbonz4988]

The bad thing about limping you get yourself into bad situations which I should have never been in. I think if sb or BB yeah but don't be afraid to fold small blind..

 

[DIANTA]

You have your answer. 2.5 or fold at a minimum. While some may argue that it's okay in a certain situation, it's really not.

You don't have to defend a blind, you don't have to play BB vs SB, you don't have to limp to see if you hit a set, you don't have to limp because everyone else is limping, or any other reason that could be offered.

There are a couple reasons for this:

1. It's a bad habit. Once you start this it becomes easier and easier to justify your limp for a wide range which pretty much wins small pots and loses big one.

2. You start playing a bad selection of cards and end up in hands you shouldn't be in. You are putting yourself in a position to lose to larger straight, flushes, sets, 2 pair, ect.

3. A raise sets up a strong aggressive poker hand. It thins the range I'm playing against, it sets up my cbet and bluffs, it builds value and bigger pots for my hands.

This is a huge hole in a poker game. Limping loses money.

Agree with all points. Thanks for posting. Being a limp fighter, I would rather add a few thoughts:
- openlimp reduces fold-equity to 0
- openlimp tells too much about you hand
- openlimp can increase entering the pot with margin hands

- openlimp from full-ring UTG does not fit in my head at all

So, I am happy if I see all above one by one at the table - full support. :top:
Good luck.