Now I know why I hate freerolls.

twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
The all-in style is for the birds, then betting 3X the BB with low pair.
Are people actually learning the game or they just wing it cause they saw it on television?

I'll explain why? Reason #1 It becomes a crap shoot. Flipping a coin on 2 cards in hopes it comes heads when you call heads. #2 Your hand becomes more in danger when more than 1 actually call you. Now you've got more than a coin toss. #3 Do you spend your life savings on the powerball in hopes of becoming a millionaire? So why do it in a freeroll? I forgot it isn't your $$$ that you would be losing. So instead of actually learning any aspects of the game, you keep betting all-in and not learn a thing.

All-in should be called when you become short stacked late in the game. That is why you notice on television the all-in most of the time. You hardly ever see the beginning of a televised tourney. No disrespect to the players on this site who are very good. But the beginners have to learn a thing or 2 about the game. I have to learn as well, drop my ego at the door. It is going to be my biggest downfall until I learn to let it go.

In my opinion there should be some sort of tutorial or quiz one must pass before they play 1 single freeroll.

One final question, what is so great about going all-in anyway? Is it the rush? The mystery that someone may call? The possibility you may take someone out?

Oh and before someone says if we follow the book the game would be boring. Actually in all other sports, since the book is being followed the game hardly ever becomes boring. Only becomes boring when you aren't happy playing the game.

Learning to play winning Texas Hold’em requires reading and studying. If you read just one book about the game you will be ahead of about 80 percent of the other payers at the table. Spending the money for a good poker book is a lot cheaper than trying to get your education at the tables in a money game.
 
W

Winjammer

Guest
Yeah but poker has a ton of luck involved in it. And horrendous play is rewarded more times than one would think possible. In tournaments in my experience luck is more important than skill. You just have to hope you get in the money or win a few so you can stay ahead of the game. I have played thousands of tournaments and lucky and skillful is the best combination but skill alone won't get you anywhere. Some people are just luckier than others in life and gambling. I have come to the conclusion it must be a mental thing.
 
S

sublimer21

Enthusiast
I don't see why it bothers you when people do that. It gets people out of the tournament faster. I watch and I call when I have the cards to call with. Yes sometimes you lose but not all the time. Those people are the ones that should be putting you in the chip lead. Don't look at them as a nuisance. Look at them as an opportunity.
 
ray101bassman

ray101bassman

Rock Star
learn to play the all ins it will get fun to take them out just wait for the right cards and the right time one on one any one can win
 
Murph828

Murph828

Rising Star
Surviving the crazies and making it to the later rounds is a great skill to learn. When I play a freeroll I watch and see what cards the crazies are betting. I sit and wait for AA or KK and when the crazies go all in with 89 hearts or AJ spades or small PP I call and count my winnings!:top:
 
Jesus Lederer

Jesus Lederer

Rock Star
stunno said:
Did it not go too well in the tourney tonight?
lol.

Twizzybop: I know that at the beggining of the freerolls there are always stupid players who goes all in in the starting hands, but you just have to watch them and be patient. Those players don´t have so much chances later at the tourney, because you know that all they can do is just going all in, so players who plays well or at least plays seriously will bust them out. My strategie is to play tight at the beggining, like 10 handed (in fact i´m always tight, but at the beggining i only try to play AA,KK,QQ,AK.), then, in the middle of the tourney, when 60% of the players are out, i loosen up a bit trying to steal some pots to still being alive, but still playing tight, and finally at the final table i try to play more aggressive using my tight image. Obviously all what i said is relative and always depends on the situation, but i try to follow that style in a general way.
I can say that this style worked pretty well for me, because from the last 5 freerolls i played, i reached 4 final tables and in the other one i placed in the money.
I agree with you that reading books and studying the theory of the game can help you really much to improve your game (at least it worked on me), and if some players don´t do that because they just don´t want to learn or play seriously, all you need to do is to play as well as you can do and you will do a good tourney. Knowing your opponents styles s an important part of the game, so let those stupid players going all in and call them only with premium hands.

Windjammer: i don´t agree with you. To win a tourney a good percent of luck is involved, but only with skills you can place in the money almost all the time.
 
GaTechMom

GaTechMom

Enthusiast
Jesus Lederer said:
lol.

Twizzybop: I know that at the beggining of the freerolls there are always stupid players who goes all in in the starting hands, but you just have to watch them and be patient. Those players don´t have so much chances later at the tourney, because you know that all they can do is just going all in, so players who plays well or at least plays seriously will bust them out. My strategie is to play tight at the beggining, like 10 handed (in fact i´m always tight, but at the beggining i only try to play AA,KK,QQ,AK.), then, in the middle of the tourney, when 60% of the players are out, i loosen up a bit trying to steal some pots to still being alive, but still playing tight, and finally at the final table i try to play more aggressive using my tight image. Obviously all what i said is relative and always depends on the situation, but i try to follow that style in a general way.
I can say that this style worked pretty well for me, because from the last 5 freerolls i played, i reached 4 final tables and in the other one i placed in the money.
I agree with you that reading books and studying the theory of the game can help you really much to improve your game (at least it worked on me), and if some players don´t do that because they just don´t want to learn or play seriously, all you need to do is to play as well as you can do and you will do a good tourney. Knowing your opponents styles s an important part of the game, so let those stupid players going all in and call them only with premium hands.

Windjammer: i don´t agree with you. To win a tourney a good percent of luck is involved, but only with skills you can place in the money almost all the time.
I try to do that, but sometimes I do dumb things.

sublimer21 said:
I don't see why it bothers you when people do that. It gets people out of the tournament faster. I watch and I call when I have the cards to call with. Yes sometimes you lose but not all the time. Those people are the ones that should be putting you in the chip lead. Don't look at them as a nuisance. Look at them as an opportunity.
I do but it seems like they are lucky against me and win when they should'nt
 
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Jesus Lederer

Jesus Lederer

Rock Star
GaTechMom said:
I try to do that, but sometimes I do dumb things.
I know that my style is not going to work on every tourney you play, because a little % of luck (in my oppinion) is involved, and maybe when you played well almost all the tourney a bad beat can bust you out, but if you played a solid, consistant poker you will success more often than losing. The key to do that (if you know you have some skills) is to concentrate plenty on the game. Turn off the TV and only open the poker software you´re playing. Put attention to everything, as if you were playing live, every opponent´s information can make you change a decision. Also prevent going on tilt.
 
B

brnsturg sux

Guest
no matter wat newbs will go all in and be stupid. u cant do ne thing about it but if u dont like either u can A) just simply fold and let it go or B)simply not play so u dont have to get frustrated with newbs.
 
lightning36

lightning36

Visionary
I guess that I have gotten into some bad habits in the freerolls. I wonder sometimes how some players can have so many points so early in the tournament. After playing waaay too many hands, I am going to "tighten up" and check the results.
 
The Silencer

The Silencer

The Nearly Man
Hey Jesus not disrespect but i am one of those who kinda start to like the game because of television.Belive me not because the players that start from there are bad players .This is simple bad players are just bad players and no matter what there always gonna be bad players around.Actually i wont be playing poker if all the players are great ,so i kinda like the players that come and play badly and if the television is promoting the game for more bad players (fishes) to come then let them come dont you think ?:stoned:
 
Murph828

Murph828

Rising Star
In the end.....bad players always make you money! On my buddiy lists, there are no buddies there, but it's full of bad players that I track, hunt and kill! Think of poker as war. Study your enemy and learn his weakness. Then attack! Oh yeah, my favorite poker book? The Art of War by Sun Tzu.
 
jmj69

jmj69

Guest
Don't let the "all-in'ers" get to you. They are like a bright star they flare up and burn out fast. Just play your game. When one of "those" shows up at your table you can recognize it and wait for the hand to beat them. You have enough experience-now get over the fact that there are idiots playing. Have a fabulous day!!
 
H

histeric1

Rising Star
The trick is to take advantage of those who push all in early. Know its not worth it to hold a relatively low pocket pair to an all in, especially if you don't have that many chips involved in a hand.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
stunno said:
Did it not go too well in the tourney tonight?
Correct, and being that I respect those on this site. I actually thought people come to these sites to actually learn stuff instead of stealing in the freerolls. Sorry but you should be learning something on this site one way or another not just getting in and I will say it "our" freerolls.


Sorry but I just can't stand stupid people. I'd hate to see them on a basketball court against me all because they can dribble or shot a ball. I could see them now in a free 3-3 tourney that pays $10,000. If you want to play stupid and not learn the aspects, concept of the game by all means do it. By all means please don't do it near me, cause I just don't so well with stupidity.

Now back to the question that went unanswered.. what is so important that you go all-in?

Here is a tip: All-in wins you say the blinds early in the game. So now you have a whopping 30 chips you won. Now if 3x-4x the BB is used like it supposed to be instead of low pair like 6's. You will get a few more callers and possibly but highly unlikely the whole table. Now you have great ample opportunity to get more chips instead of that measly 30. So in this case the blinds were 10-20 and 4X equals 80 not all-in. So lets say you have 2 callers. This makes a total of 190 chips. That is 6X more than you'd win since everyone folded and you got the blinds for 30. Not saying that a flush or a straight draw may flop or some other "fish" who went with you on 6's didn't flop a 6. Yet the odds as you read apon EV shows otherwise.
One must remember you are not always going to win with the 3 Best Starting pre-flop hands.

And here another tip: EV=expected value..

http://teamfu.freeshell.org/poker_hands/ev_position.html

LOL now I can laugh. Reminds me so much of the Ebay discussion boards. So many new people come to those after the fact they try Ebay and not reading a thing Ebay has on their site. Sorta like jumping head 1st into 2ft of water. Just doesn't work unless of course you get lucky and can bend your body like one of those "pretzel" people. LOL sorry don't know how to spell contortionists.. ooh think it may be spelled correctly or in my neck of the words it is spelt.

One other thing and sorry guys but when I make a good play and thier bad play that turns to luck makes my good play look bad. I look bad based apon thier bad decisions. So yes when competiting I like to look good cause I did something good.:hahaha:
 
D

dsmn8

Guest
Patience, freerolls with lots of entries demands patience in my book. When everyone calll the big blind and you raise the pot more than half end up calling. What to do? I play super tight early, and once i have some chips i push around those with the draws cause their looking for a reason to call. But alas i don't buy the whole luck thing. Luck exists yes, but given luck is as random forever one sitting there, skill plays a big role. wish i had more.
 
BatistaJJ

BatistaJJ

Guest
yeah just play tight let the stupid players go out first, and if they end up getting lucky atleast it isnt your chips they have got.just take a look at the players who are top after 2 or 3 hands, i bet you they wont be there after 100 hands cause they are the players who then loosen up and play very weak hands then they go on tilt, so just sit back and wait for the fist good hand then take them out
 
J

J2THEL531

Guest
I understand

Yeah it sucks, but its a freeroll. You have to play with idiots. So you're better off depositing a few bucks and playing for real!
 
BatistaJJ

BatistaJJ

Guest
right i just got knocked out of the UB free roll in the first hand, 2 people call the 10 BB bet and i raise it up to 100 with pocket Aces most of the table fold then one guy moves all in, no decision neccessary, youll all agree you have to call, so i did, he had
5 8 of clubs, obviously i thought id won but the flop comes and he hits the nut nuts with a bloody flush and knocks me out, i fell so embarrassed being out in the first hand.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
J2THEL531 said:
Yeah it sucks, but its a freeroll. You have to play with idiots. So you're better off depositing a few bucks and playing for real!
Been there and done that as well. You still have them in the few bucks areas.

Now I tried playing the "rock", LOL did me no good. Well made it to the break hardly playing zilch hands cause I didn't get a single hand to be with. Then Chip leader on my table who bets on everything gets Ace,King off suit and bets 5X the BB to my Ace,Queen suited. 2 hearts come on the flop which is actually a good thing so a 35% to get the Nuts to the river. Nope got nothing but an ace on the river which did me no good. Still rude person though cause I did say NH without recieving a TY. Typed YW and went on my merry way. Still wondering though what is so great about the all-in? I saw it occomplish a lot of blind stealing and that was about it. So whope-de-do-da-dang you got the 30 chips. Wish I was that brilliant to get 30 chips by betting all-in.Then you even get someone with suited rags or Jack,Ten suited who call or even actually bet the all-in to begin with. I even asked someone who bet with suited rags that one, why he did that? Answer: It is just a game and I took a chance. Ok so if it is just a game then why are we keeping score? Take a chance on a lottery ticket, such as the powerball the payoff is much higher.

I am sorry I particularly don't like to lose, maybe you do, but I am not playing to lose. If you think I am bad with dealing with stupid people, ride with me in my car. At a green light, car in front of me who takes off slow or waits for thier shade of green. I will say gas pedal is on the right, yes that is why they call it an acceleration pedal. When you actually push on it with some pressure you will go more than 2mph through that light.

Now the last note: Just 2 things to at least take with you 2 the tables. The fit or fold notion and the if it isn't a set then don't bet.

Now for some more helpfull hints, playing the "rock" wasn't the best way.
The more I keep reading, playing, the more I am learning. http://www.betterholdem.com/texas-holdem-strategy-2.html

However a hoorah for me was, I played a recent freeroll but it was limit 7 card stud. Did what I thought was well for me, place 46th out of 1000. Best hand I had was the 2 hidden pocket 2's I had and 1st card showing for me was another 2. Very nice to start with 3 of a kind and end up getting a full house. Won about 16k with that hand. Worse lose was hand Ace,King.Queen,10.. Had the Ace,King in the hole. For the life of me I just couldn't get the Jack for the life of me. Got the 9, the 8, every other card but ended up folding at the very last card. Yes there was not another Jack showing on the table.
 
J

j1a1m1

Guest
Its all about style and of course the buy-in. If you play by the book all the time chances are I could tell you what your cards are by the turn. Its always good to play a little changeup. As far as all in early on in a freeroll preflop if some1 is in front of me and goes all in and I have AA or KK, I'm gonna call. Sure you can sit back and make your 3x BB raise, but that gets no respect in a freeroll. Even early on in a freeroll, if I have a good hand, I'm betting at least 100 b4 the flop I dont care what the blind is, anything less gets no respect. The problem is as you say people think it didn't cost me anything, so i got nothing to lose. The way I look at it is, what is first place prize?, cause thats what i have to lose.
 
stunno

stunno

Guest
If the freerolls are so bad why play them? I have only been playing a couple of months and am not willing to risk my hard earned when I have no "real" prospect of winning. But I have been winning bits at the free rolls, mainly by not playing, if that makes sense. I tend not to bet unless I have a good hand, unless I have a bucket load of chips then I might risk a bit

I was placed 24th out of 1250 last night, earning the grand total of $1.70! During the tourney I went All in 5 times, 2 when I knew I couldn't lose and had been raised, and 3 times when I was seriously short stacked towards the end.

Now perhaps I don't fit your definition of "stupid newb" exactly, as I try to play as if the chips were real money, and never cease to be amazed that 5 or more people have been knocked out of a tourney before I have finished the first hand! But every table has a blend of players, some good, some crap, some even worse, you need to smile and sit it out until you get moved to a different table, or play on tables that better fit your ability
 
W

Winjammer

Guest
Jesus,

I disagree with you. If you get outdrawn enough it doesnt matter how skillful you play. And there can be long streaks where you get outdrawn consistently.
If it doesnt happen to you very often then either you havent been playing long or you are luckier than the average player which might be the case. For every super lucky player there is someone else on the other end of the spectrum who has the same luck in reverse. I noticed the phenomena not only by playing but also dealing for many years. Just my opinion though. I could be dead wrong. Just my observation.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
Winjammer said:
Jesus,

I disagree with you. If you get outdrawn enough it doesnt matter how skillful you play. And there can be long streaks where you get outdrawn consistently.
If it doesnt happen to you very often then either you havent been playing long or you are luckier than the average player which might be the case. For every super lucky player there is someone else on the other end of the spectrum who has the same luck in reverse. I noticed the phenomena not only by playing but also dealing for many years. Just my opinion though. I could be dead wrong. Just my observation.
Thats me as of recently, getting outdrawn consistently no matter how good my cards are. LOL even got a thread on it. :)
 
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